Comments on: Leveraging Todd Jones http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:59:57 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: 1 year / $7mil - Todd Jones reups. - Page 2 - SpartanTailgate.com - Michigan State Spartans Forums http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-73643 1 year / $7mil - Todd Jones reups. - Page 2 - SpartanTailgate.com - Michigan State Spartans Forums Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:55:05 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-73643 [...] think this captures the Jones issue pretty well: The Detroit Tiger Weblog [...] think this captures the Jones issue pretty well: The Detroit Tiger Weblog

]]> By: The Detroit Tiger Weblog » Blog Archive » Tiger sign Todd Jones http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-73593 The Detroit Tiger Weblog » Blog Archive » Tiger sign Todd Jones Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:09:55 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-73593 [...] If you're new here and like what you see, you may want to subscribe to my RSS feed. Thanks for visiting! The Tigers inked Todd Jones to a 1 year deal. If you’re keeping score at home, that’s 2 Joneses today. I’ll have more tonight. In the meantime here is a post looking at Jones’ 2007 season. [...] [...] If you’re new here and like what you see, you may want to subscribe to my RSS feed. Thanks for visiting! The Tigers inked Todd Jones to a 1 year deal. If you’re keeping score at home, that’s 2 Joneses today. I’ll have more tonight. In the meantime here is a post looking at Jones’ 2007 season. [...]

]]> By: ron http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-72107 ron Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:29:40 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-72107 Bob S. Good comment. I liked the ol' days when people couldn't back up their opinions with stats. Made for much more interesting talk. But then again, I liked the old days when ballplayers worked a job in the off season, and their were one or two pitchers each game, and they smoked in the dugout and.... Bob S. Good comment. I liked the ol’ days when people couldn’t back up their opinions with stats. Made for much more interesting talk. But then again, I liked the old days when ballplayers worked a job in the off season, and their were one or two pitchers each game, and they smoked in the dugout and….

]]> By: Eric Cioe http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-72067 Eric Cioe Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:51:28 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-72067 I agree Bob. I'm just saying you can't say that Zumaya isn't any good (for example) in late and close situations, when the stats tell you people only bat .209 against him then. I agree 100% that he could be a lot more mature of a pitcher, and when he does that he'll be absolutely dominant, but right now, in his pretty much raw form he does pretty good in closer-type situations, and makes me chew my nails less than Jones. I agree Bob. I’m just saying you can’t say that Zumaya isn’t any good (for example) in late and close situations, when the stats tell you people only bat .209 against him then. I agree 100% that he could be a lot more mature of a pitcher, and when he does that he’ll be absolutely dominant, but right now, in his pretty much raw form he does pretty good in closer-type situations, and makes me chew my nails less than Jones.

]]> By: BobS. http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-72053 BobS. Wed, 10 Oct 2007 05:04:48 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-72053 Stats are great deciders,especially when they're used to supplement what we see with our eyes.If you're convinced they're the whole story,save a few bucks on tickets and stick to fantasy baseball. Stats are great deciders,especially when they’re used to supplement what we see with our eyes.If you’re convinced they’re the whole story,save a few bucks on tickets and stick to fantasy baseball.

]]> By: Eric Cioe http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-72048 Eric Cioe Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:22:46 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-72048 I'd rather decide things based on statistics than "my gut." I guess I'm a Moneyballer. I’d rather decide things based on statistics than “my gut.” I guess I’m a Moneyballer.

]]> By: BobS. http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71981 BobS. Tue, 09 Oct 2007 06:21:19 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71981 It wasn't necessary to look at Zumaya's record or his 'clutch stats' to see he wasn't ready to close.You just had to look at him pitch. It wasn’t necessary to look at Zumaya’s record or his ‘clutch stats’
to see he wasn’t ready to close.You just had to look at him pitch.

]]> By: Mike R http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71969 Mike R Tue, 09 Oct 2007 02:29:36 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71969 That's a pretty small sample, Coach Jim. If you look at his <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=zumayjo01&year=00" rel="nofollow">"Clutch Stats"</a> he's dominant. 2 outs, RISP: .179 BA against, .295 OBP, .299 slugging against. Late and Close situations: .209/.298/.286 Tie game: .272/.344/.309 (only 19 games in this category. one of his smallest sample sizes) Within 1 run: .199/.287/.256 Within 2 runs: .183/.254/.253 Within 3 runs: .191/.280/.287 Within 4 runs: .195/.283/.283 More then 4 runs: .128/.328/.234 (another small sample.) That’s a pretty small sample, Coach Jim.

If you look at his “Clutch Stats” he’s dominant.

2 outs, RISP: .179 BA against, .295 OBP, .299 slugging against.
Late and Close situations: .209/.298/.286
Tie game: .272/.344/.309 (only 19 games in this category. one of his smallest sample sizes)
Within 1 run: .199/.287/.256
Within 2 runs: .183/.254/.253
Within 3 runs: .191/.280/.287
Within 4 runs: .195/.283/.283
More then 4 runs: .128/.328/.234 (another small sample.)

]]> By: Coach Jim http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71949 Coach Jim Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:40:13 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71949 Let me add this. Look at Zumaya's record in extra innings this year. He's not ready. Let me add this. Look at Zumaya’s record in extra innings this year. He’s not ready.

]]> By: Kyle J http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71922 Kyle J Mon, 08 Oct 2007 03:20:05 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71922 Bottom line: Coming into to start an inning with no one on, Jones is an above-average reliever. Coming into a game in the middle of an inning with runners on, Jones is very much a below-average reliever. I'm A-OK with brining him back as long as he's used in the first situation--regardless of which inning it is--and not in the second. Bottom line:

Coming into to start an inning with no one on, Jones is an above-average reliever.

Coming into a game in the middle of an inning with runners on, Jones is very much a below-average reliever.

I’m A-OK with brining him back as long as he’s used in the first situation–regardless of which inning it is–and not in the second.

]]> By: Vince in MN http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71904 Vince in MN Sun, 07 Oct 2007 19:05:26 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71904 I agree with Stephen. When Jones has to throw more than 20-25 pitches he tends to get hammered. This certainly eliminates the possibility of him pitching more than 1 inning. It seems that he also hasn't been particularly effective in coming into a game to put out a fire in the middle of an inning. It's hard to make any kind of judgement here though, since it just hasn't happened that often. Since Zumaya missed so much of the season due to injury, I think our "closer in waiting" may need another year of seasoning before we can count on him in that role. If this is indeed the plan for the near future, bringing in another lights-out closer for only 1 year is going to be next to impossible, so a one year deal with Jones may not be such a bad idea. Besides, outside of the handful of games where Jones got lit up for 4 or 5 runs, he did very well. Let's face it, most of the time our expectations of what was going to happen when Jones came in were not met, which in this case is a good thing. I agree with Stephen. When Jones has to throw more than 20-25 pitches he tends to get hammered. This certainly eliminates the possibility of him pitching more than 1 inning. It seems that he also hasn’t been particularly effective in coming into a game to put out a fire in the middle of an inning. It’s hard to make any kind of judgement here though, since it just hasn’t happened that often. Since Zumaya missed so much of the season due to injury, I think our “closer in waiting” may need another year of seasoning before we can count on him in that role. If this is indeed the plan for the near future, bringing in another lights-out closer for only 1 year is going to be next to impossible, so a one year deal with Jones may not be such a bad idea. Besides, outside of the handful of games where Jones got lit up for 4 or 5 runs, he did very well. Let’s face it, most of the time our expectations of what was going to happen when Jones came in were not met, which in this case is a good thing.

]]> By: Stephen http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71897 Stephen Sun, 07 Oct 2007 16:12:57 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71897 It appears--and this is purely subjective--that Jones wouldn't be a reliable 2 inning pitcher. So, if you eventually switch him out of the closer role, he really is limited in his appeal and appears to be Jose Mesa waiting to happen. He's a nice guy, but unless he's willing to play for 3m, i think it's time to cut him loose. It appears–and this is purely subjective–that Jones wouldn’t be a reliable 2 inning pitcher. So, if you eventually switch him out of the closer role, he really is limited in his appeal and appears to be Jose Mesa waiting to happen. He’s a nice guy, but unless he’s willing to play for 3m, i think it’s time to cut him loose.

]]> By: Chris http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71896 Chris Sun, 07 Oct 2007 15:16:50 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71896 I wonder if Jones would be a better reliever for appearances with inherited runners at the bases. He seems to induce allot of ground balls, which can get turned into rally killing double plays. I wonder if Jones would be a better reliever for appearances with inherited runners at the bases. He seems to induce allot of ground balls, which can get turned into rally killing double plays.

]]> By: Coach Jim http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71882 Coach Jim Sun, 07 Oct 2007 13:52:49 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71882 I would like to see the percentage of shutout innings, or something approximating that. I mean, Jones did give up a lot of runs, but I seem to remember a lot of innings where multiple runs were scored. Since 1 run is a big deal to a closer, there is little difference between giving up 1 run and giving up 4; a loss is a loss. I caught the end of the Red Wings' game last night. It looks like they need a closer too. I would like to see the percentage of shutout innings, or something approximating that. I mean, Jones did give up a lot of runs, but I seem to remember a lot of innings where multiple runs were scored. Since 1 run is a big deal to a closer, there is little difference between giving up 1 run and giving up 4; a loss is a loss.

I caught the end of the Red Wings’ game last night. It looks like they need a closer too.

]]> By: Jeff M http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71878 Jeff M Sun, 07 Oct 2007 12:49:48 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/10/leveraging-todd-jones/#comment-71878 Good point, Billfer, just as long as you can convince him that it's the same difference. Good point, Billfer, just as long as you can convince him that it’s the same difference.

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