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PREGAME: With a win today the Tigers will a)knock the Mariners out of contention and b)will have sustained a winning streak an entire turn through the rotation. The second is the bigger accomplishment in this blogger’s opinion.
But it won’t be easy with King Felix Hernandez on the rubber for the Mariners. The Tigers got to him for 10 hits in 6 1/3 inning the last time they met, but he limited the damage to 2 runs and picked up a win. Hernandez has allowed double digit hits in every other start dating back to the beginning of August. Following the pattern would be beneficial for the Tigers.
And then there is Bonderman who slogged through 5 1/3 innings his last time out and allowed only 3 runs, but none of it was easy - except for a 1-2-3 first inning. When he departed it appeared his elbow was hurting him. So control will be the thing to watch today. Can he command the fastball and does the slider have it’s normal bite?
Game Time 1:05
SEA @ DET, Sunday, September 9, 2007 Game Preview - Baseball-Reference.com
{ 99 comments… read them below or add one }
It was extremely cloudy this AM but is now cloud free and a gorgeous day. Hopefully, heading towards Detroit.
Even though Sheff is sick, I think he’ll get a hit today.
Grandy gets his 20th steal!!!
Granderson!!!! 20-20-20-20. Awesome.
Well, came home from errands and just turned it on. Bonderman spazzed out in the first again? I’m getting used to it. Go Grandy and let’s not screw up here with the bases loaded.
Anyone else watching gameday? It has that ball that Maggs hit being above his head and about 18 inches outside. Made me laugh. I’ll laugh even more if you guys tell me it’s true.
Now that’s what I’m talking about!!
Isn’t Granderson amazing. He is so humble, and kind. Gotta be a career Tiger.
32 pitches and 4 runs in first inning and counting. me likey.
Ben, best I recall of Maggs’ hit, gameday spazzed!
This seems familiar.
I can’t watch this.
I’m afraid JB has a new middle name I’ve been using today.
Well, the Tigers hitting their pitcher is not a problem so far. Unfortunately our pitcher can’t get it together. I am pretty much done holding out any hope for Bonderman. This really irritates me. I can’t help it. Everyone else has stepped up. This is inexcusable. If his elbow was bad enough to be considered an injury then he should have skipped this start.
Bondo thinks this is the first inning.
Like I said, Grilli should have gotten the spot start . . .
amen Kurt
There is nothing worse that the Bonderman grimace. Total head case at this point.
and the worse thing about Bonderman today…it all started with a hit by Willie Bloomquist, one of the weakest hitter’s in the league.
Yeah, CIB I agree. If he was hurt, he’s got to tell them and not go out there. If he was hurting after the first inning, he’s got to cop it. I certainly don’t want him to be hurt, but if he’s not hurt, he just spit the bit in a crucial start.
Going into the off-season, Dombrowski has to look at Bonderman as a #4 starter and plan accordingly.
We just got bondoblasted.
Bonderman’s post all star ERA now at 7.
So much for our vaunted young arms, huh? Who knows what Bonderman and Miller are going to bring in 2008? Let’s just pray they don’t fast track Porcello. At least Verlander is the real deal.
That’s why they say you can never have too many “young arms” - eventually you’ve got the thinning of the herd . . . agree with you Stephen, someone else needs to be considered for the 1-2 spots with Verlander.
To follow up on Stephen, Bondo’s ERA is over 5 now.
It’s pretty shocking. He started 9-0 and is now 11-8.
Before today he’s made 10 post all-star starts. His record is 2-7 (the two NDs the team actually won.)
Who would have thought he’d totally fall off the cliff?
Ouch.
Maybe they’ll put Bondo on the DL starting the day they reported a sore elbow and get him straightened out….upper body realignment or something.
How many innings can we role the dice with Grilli today? There is a doubleheader on Tuesday…and another crummy thing, lined up to pitch tomorrow is Halladay…of course. Not only does that suck, but it also means he won’t pitch in a four-game set vs. the Yanks.
Sigh. I am still holding out hope but when we have to worry about who is pitching for other teams against the Yankees in mid-September as part of our equation, it just might not be our year . . .
I haven’t bothered to even look at what other teams are doing. All I know is we have to win just about every game. Then, I’ll look.
Man, this strike is inconsistent today. That was strike 3 to Bloomquist, and Felix got a strike call on one that was clearly low (and called a ball the first time he threw it)
There goes Grilli’s scoreless streak. No big deal, I’ll gladly give up that run for 3 or 4 more good innings from him.
C’mon Brandon.
Rapada or Vasquez…who do ya want?
Yeah Kathy, its unfortunate. But the fact is, that 4 game win streak doesn’t matter at all. We’ll need another one to make a dent in the Yankees WC lead.
How many runs can you really expect your team to put up for you?
Jesus.
Now, this inning scares me.
Great pitch Grilli. Let’s just get out of this inning, we’ll be okay.
I guess everyone is gonna be on watch with all the games coming up over the next few days. Who is this Rapper kid?
I can’t watch anymore. Going out to meet a friend for coffee. Jeez.
Awwwwww helllllll. I wonder if Leyland is guessing himself now.
Adam - am I that far behind? Or was 7 too much for you?
Jeez…another killer from an 0-2 count.
Nice job Rapada. WTF?
What did you expect to get for CMo.
Could be a 5 hour game. Lions kickoff about the eighth inning.
Now, its Virgil. Ugh!
Well, at least with all the extra arms in the bullpen they won’t be risking anyone who matters.
And while I know it’s dangerous on the wild card side, I’d like to see Seattle have a very good Monday through Thursday, followed by a crappy weekend, so maybe their bats will wake up.
bottom of the order HR here would be a big pick up
I onlu caught the tail-end of the force play for Timo, was Betancourt way off the base second?
I’m okay with giving one up here, we’ve won the series. But I hate to lose more ground to NYY. Let’s go KC.
A two out walk and now this.
My mistake about the Indians/Mariners series, for some idiotic reason I thought Cleveland was going up the coast to Seattle this week (like MLB would be smart enough to combine West Coast series to reduce travel). So let’s hope the Mariners slow down after this one game then get hot in a couple weeks.
Cib, it was our year, but we took a two month vacation when we should have been working overtime.
Good, now we only need 7 more runs and we tie.
Well….the only thing left here is which positional player throws a couple innings to save the pen? Unfortunately I can’t think of anyone on the bench that fits the role, Raburn maybe?
This might be a good game for Thames to get in.
Well, let me try and be a rare voice of positivity. can’t win every game, we can start again tomorrow with key bullpen staff well rested. i’ll take four of of five the rest of the way..
Virgil Vasquez…. Surving up batting practice….. He stinks
Bonderman would have looked good in a Ranger uniform.
I agree that we can’t be viewing him as a number 2 going into next season. He may still put together a full season, but management certainly can’t count on it.
At the start of this season did anyone foresee us heading into next season with so many holes to fill? Such a freaking bummer.
The real thing that ticks me off with Bonderman is when he walks guys. When he was doing well he rarely walked anyone. Now he has no confidence in his stuff. It’s like if he doesn’t get a close pitch it takes him two, three batters to recover. Or then, like today, he starts grooving pitches. It doesn’t seem like he has too much to correct, I just wonder what Chuck Hernandez does to earn a paycheck?
Here we go Royals! 3-3.
Bilfer - what’s up with the auction ads? If you need some coin, ask for donations. That’s what Newberg does, works great for him. I’m sure we’ll all pitch in a few bucks.
Every time I hear Maggs batting music takes me back to Oct. 14th when I had my face covered up with my hands cause I was so scared and nervous.
Last swing by Guillen was ugly.
5-3 NYY.
Darby needs another career path.
It’s just another potential revenue source that I’m trying. If it’s successful it’ll stay, if not it’ll go. Given the amount of time and effort I put into the site, I’d like to generate some money for it - it helps smooth things over with Mrs. Billfer.
The problem is donations is that they are typically a one time thing. If I can find sustained advertising revenue, that’s preferable to me, especially if it means that regular readers don’t have to dig into their pockets. I get more revenue and click throughs on ads from passers-by and those coming here via search engines than regular readers.
But in the vain of donations, for the first 7 people who donate $15 they will get a ticket to the Tuesday night game!
God bless Dave Dombrowski for what he has done with this team over the last couple years but for the love of something holy, please never let his daughter sing God Bless America again!
Is this still going on? Yow.
Bilfer - what’s your paypal address?
Go Lions.
Well this is just super…
“It doesn’t feel good,” Bonderman said. “I have a sharp pain in the elbow. The doctors are going to take some tests tomorrow and find out what it is.”
“I wanted to help my team,” Bonderman said. “But all I did was hurt my self and my team.”
That’s on Leyland. You can’t just pitch a guy who’s hurting allegedly that bad when almost every game is a must-win.
Hopefully we’ll get a straight answer who’s decision it was for Bonderman to start today, because he had NOTHING.
Mike in Ct
I just read about that. If you watched the FSN broadcast, you could see Leyland talking to the trainer while Bondo was pitching. I don’t blame Leyland for this, but these guys are not doing the team a favor if they’re hurting and won’t admit it.
re: “I wanted to help my team,” Bonderman said. “But all I did was hurt my self and my team.”
You think??!!
That’s malpractice on Leyland and pure idiocy on Bonderman. I mean if teammates are whispering about it to the press, Leyland must have known. How do you not get that checked out between starts?
yeah…maybe killing leyland is over the top. Bonderman basically admitted he didn’t tell anyone about the injury. I just wonder if it’s only hurting more because he’s pitching poorly.
Eh, if there was any more proof needed this isn’t our year, this is it.
And it seems like every time the pitcher has a terrible start or is doing poorly, they get put on the DL. Evidently, that’s what he needs. And where is Chuck Hernandez in this thing? Does’nt he carry some responsibiltiy also.
Boy, if Bonderman is using this as an excuse and isn’t hurt, well this is going to explode internally.
This we know:
1. Other players mentioned his elbow was hurt.
2. Bonderman said he was fine.
3. No tests done. (As far as we know).
4. Bonderman flames out.
5. Now he says he’s hurt.
Something seems weird.
While the Tigers still have to play nine hard innings, they’re probably out of the race. I just wonder who’s gonna stay and who’s gonna go.
Wow. Are you guys seriously trying to accuse Bonderman of faking an elbow injury because he’s been terrible as of late? Seriously? That is absolutely ridiculous. I know we all complain and piss and moan about a lot of things on this blog about the players and some question the hustle but if anyone is trying to allege that Bondo isn’t as hurt like he says, they need to seriously check themselves out in the mirror and I question their fan committment.
That said, I do believe he’s hurt and I don’t blame him for trying to pitch through it. Hell, Kenny tried to pitch through his pain after coming back from getting a blood clot removed before getting shelved again.
And, when the news broke on it a week or so ago, I the reaction that he should be shut down, regardless of whatever race we may be in. He does no good to us if he’s going to be on the shelf for 08 and part of 09 with elbow surgery.
Amen on Chuck Hernandez. With all our young arms in the system, I definitely don’t feel confident with him in charge.
Look, I’d never say a professional athlete faked an injury. But faking and lying are two different things.
With Bonderman, what upsets me is that he didn’t show maturity this year. After being rushed up to the majors and enduring those massive loss seasons and going through an ALCS and World Series, etc. you’d think that he’d be able to say he’s hurting and have someone look at it.
I understand with athletes their is a massive fear of being injured but part of being a professional is being forthright with your managers and the management of the team. Yes, there is fighting your bumps and bruises and being tough, but as a pitcher if your elbow isn’t right you can’t try to hide it or downplay it.
I’m just saying he’s either hurt or not hurt. Someone is not being honest at some point in this. I understand maybe they were soft pedaling this after the last start, but if players are telling the media Bonderman was hurting then the should has an obligation to have it checked out between starts. Maybe they did and they’re not coming clean right now. Whatever, if he was hurt and the team knew it both Bonderman and the franchise showed incredibly poor judgement. It’s one thing if he was pitching decently and then got hurt and thought he could gut it out, but he’s been awful for two months so either he or the team should have had the sense to shut him down.
I’m just saying he’s either hurt or not hurt. Someone is not being honest at some point in this. I understand maybe they were soft pedaling this after the last start, but if players are telling the media Bonderman was hurting then the team has an obligation to have it checked out between starts. Maybe they did and they’re not coming clean right now. Whatever, if he was hurt and the team knew it both Bonderman and the franchise showed incredibly poor judgement. It’s one thing if he was pitching decently and then got hurt and thought he could gut it out, but he’s been awful for two months so either he or the team should have had the sense to shut him down.
Agreed, someone be it Drombrowski, Hernandez or Leyland probably should have had the foresight to do or say something.
The sad thing is, all the preseason prognosticators talked about how the extra innings from the 2006 playoffs would take a toll on the young pitchers.
So far Zumaya, Rodney and now Bonderman have gotten hurt to some degree, though Zumaya seems like more of a fluke injury than arm fatigue/wear and tear.
At this rate we all might need to say a collective prayer for Justin Verlander. And if they fall any further back maybe they ought to consider shutting him down too.
I was worried about the suggestion of the elbow issue after the last start and I referred to it in my first post!!
Personally I don’t think Bonderman was trying to fake anything, or lie to anyone or whatever. I don’t believe he is, shall we say, a real deep thinker and I believe his instinct was just to say, I’m okay, I’m going out there. So yeah, he needs handlers and this was just a major screwup.
Let’s try to enjoy the individual good things going on. Granderson. Magglio. Paws is a good dancer . . .
The maturity to admit to being injured? Kenny Rogers waited until the late afternoon, essentially 18 hours before his next start before he said he wasn’t able to go. If a 42 year old veteran is going to hide his pain until finally coming to his senses, what can we expect from a mid-20’s pitcher with the pressure of being a No. 1 even though we’ve completely mishandled his entire career? Not to mention the fact that he’s been terrible his last 9-ish starts or so, and he knows it and he knows that the fans and the media and whatnot all talk about it. If I were in his position, I would do the same. These guys don’t get to where they are with out immense competitive drive and a willingness to pitch/play through pain to attempt to help the team — no matter how much they’re hurting themselves and the team. I don’t see any other young pitcher (see: Francisco Liriano for the Twins last year) doing it any differently then Bonderman.
And are we really surprised we didn’t check him out? We rush the kid to the majors years before he’s ready, we’ve mishandled his entire career thus far and stunted his growth and never learned from our mistake and did the same with Miller and took 3 weeks of AB’s from Maybin for no reason and hit Timo Perez 3rd in our lineup 2 out of 3 days. My confidence in the front office and management of this team is waning and it’s getting frustrating.
Hopefully, Kenny will give us a good game tomorrow and then we get to take another look at Jair.
Mike, old friend it has been at least a couple of weeks since we had our last ‘rushing the prospects’ debate. I’ve missed it!
There’s no pressure on Bonderman being a #1. Verlander’s the #1. Has been all year. Matter of fact, with Rogers healthy he’s been the #3 starter, I agree with some of your points, but to blame this episode on the Tigers rushing him to the major a half decade ago is a bit of a stretch.
I was for starting Miller and I don’t think 2/3rd of a year in the majors with an ERA of 5.63(or something like that, not looking it up) is a sign of the apocalypse. I was against Maybin being brought because he’d been in AA for ten days and didn’t seem ready to be in a pennant race; not because i thought this was gonna stunt his growth. Do you really think Maybin missing the last 20 games in Erie is gonna do him irrevocable harm? It hurt the team that he played and played badly, but playing those games against Clemens and the Yankees is all good life experience that will serve him well if he has the talent everyone says he has.
Bonderman’s a big boy, he’s a millionare. Yeah the team needs to have him checked out, but he’s an adult, he’s gotta take responsibilty. I’d hold Rogers to the same standard, but, in the end, he opted out from pitching. As much as a jerk as Rogers has been in the past, he’s a professional.
Let’s just say Bonderman made a mistake, but his heart was in the wrong place. I’ll even chalk it up to youth but it still was lame.
Now if you ask me if Dombrowski should have made a trade for an extra bat or an extra pitcher so Maybin/Miller could have stayed down in the minors– because the major league team had better talent– that’s a point we can probably agree on.
Bondo had 1st inning-itis that stretched into 2nd inning-itis today. No wonder he’s hurting.
If only that were it, Ron, we’d all be relieved.
I’m not trying to make it into a “rushing prospects” debate, nor did I mean to make it seem like him being rushed a half decade ago caused this. Honestly, I’m surprised he’s held up as a high school pitcher to such an advanced work load at a young age (20-21-22) without much stretching of the arm as well as he has thus far.
A beating like Miller was getting and an obvious lack of confidence in any of his secondary pitches is what concerns me. And he’s probably going to be in the majors in 08, so him developing that change up is unlikely to happen. Hell, we’ve been waiting for Bondo’s change up for 3 years. I think facing 300 hitters or more in Triple-A is better for Miller’s future. If Bonderman needs any type of surgery, it’s pretty much 100% that Miller’s in the rotation, which, in my opinion, is a bad thing.
No, I don’t think missing those AB’s is that detrimental to his growth. I’m just still upset that we brought him up for no reason when we could’ve called up Timo Perez (as much as we complain about him) and we had Granderson, Magglio, Thames, Raburn and Infante that could’ve been in the OF. Add in Timo, and that’s a ton of options that should’ve been explored before a 20 year old kid.
I guess, what I’m getting at is that I don’t agree with the Tigers philosophy of how they handle their young players by rushing them through the system. And it’s not just for our team, either. Seattle rushed Felix Hernandez for no reason, and countless other kids have been rushed to the majors for not much reason (Justin Upton in Arizona comes to mind, BJ Upton in Tampa, as well). That’s all.
And, for the record, I miss the debates Stephen. I just haven’t been around lately.
Also, including the postseason, Bonderman threw 234.1 IP last year. His previous high was 189 IP, so I’m actually not that surprised that he’s tired out/his elbow is sore with that amount of stress over the last 2 seasons. His durability to this point has been really something to love.
Only a few more weeks and our season may be over. I’m in total denial and can’t bear the thought of watching other teams play and win a World Series while our Tigers go on vacation. It absolutely freaks me out.
I hear you Kathy. We got spoiled last year. But I’ve got the Springsteen tour to distract me. Traveling to the Chicago show on 10-21.
Springsteen tour?! How much were tickets cib? I’d love to see him live.
Where are you Mike? Ticket sales are staggered according to City. Detroit goes on sale 9-21 for 11-5 show. Range is usually 75-95. Hard to get; Ticketmaster froze up yesterday when Chicago went on sale. But tickets free up closer to the show.
If you want to discuss off Weblog I am cindib@comcast.net
also see
http://www.backstreets.com/ for more info
I’m in Kalamazoo. I’ll look around on the ‘net. I completely forgot he was heading out on tour, and thusly, don’t have the 75-95 to spare at the moment. Lame.
Young pitchers are rushed because the talent pool is so thin.
Mike keep in touch with me, closer to the detroit date it’s possible I’ll have a line on extras at face value. Save your $$!
Kathy:
Good note, Kathy. And I think there is some insight into the real problem here. and I’ve said this before: the pitching coach.
Yer coach should be like yer sergeant. Yer sergeant knows what you can do; how you feel,– every day. and he’s a guy you can trust the most. he’s got to be. and so it has to be with the coach
now as I see it there is not excuse whatever for letting an injured player try to start a game and most particularly an arm issue for a pitcher or that sort of thing which is going to affect performance and like to exacerbate the injury
the more I see of this season the less respect I have for Tigers’ pitching coaching staff
I had a friend - was a great baseball player
back in high school
He could throw that speedball by you
Make you look like a fool, boy…
Who is this “friend?” Can he still pitch?
my impression ( FWIW ) is that if Bondo was still having trouble with his arm that coaching should have been sensitive to that — checking practice, talking — etc