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	<title>Comments on: Game 138:  White Sox at Tigers</title>
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	<description>News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball</description>
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		<title>By: cib</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68447</link>
		<dc:creator>cib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68447</guid>
		<description>LOL, hey guys, chill out.  I am a lawyer and (I hope!) you don&#039;t want to offend me . . .
Keep an eye on my Tigers for me tonight.  Going to a friend&#039;s for dinner and movies, we were both at last night&#039;s game and several of us have decided to take a little sabbatical this evening.  Too stressed out!  (And no we are not having pizza!)
Smile.  We&#039;re talking about Tiger baseball in September.  We can&#039;t play for them, we can just sit, watch, eat, drink and cross our fingers . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL, hey guys, chill out.  I am a lawyer and (I hope!) you don&#8217;t want to offend me . . .<br />
Keep an eye on my Tigers for me tonight.  Going to a friend&#8217;s for dinner and movies, we were both at last night&#8217;s game and several of us have decided to take a little sabbatical this evening.  Too stressed out!  (And no we are not having pizza!)<br />
Smile.  We&#8217;re talking about Tiger baseball in September.  We can&#8217;t play for them, we can just sit, watch, eat, drink and cross our fingers . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle J</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68446</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68446</guid>
		<description>OK.  It&#039;s not a literal comparison.  But it&#039;s clearly a comparison, right?  (&quot;It&#039;s as if . . .)  Not eating pizza is a matter of effort/willpower.  Hitting a breaking ball is not.

This boils down to the same debate that&#039;s been going on here the last few days.  Does everything just boil down to lack of heart/effort?  Or are there other complexities (and a certain amount of random bad luck) that have to be considered?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK.  It&#8217;s not a literal comparison.  But it&#8217;s clearly a comparison, right?  (&#8220;It&#8217;s as if . . .)  Not eating pizza is a matter of effort/willpower.  Hitting a breaking ball is not.</p>
<p>This boils down to the same debate that&#8217;s been going on here the last few days.  Does everything just boil down to lack of heart/effort?  Or are there other complexities (and a certain amount of random bad luck) that have to be considered?</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68444</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68444</guid>
		<description>Kyle, are you a lawyer? &#039;Cause that would explain you reducing my argument to a literal comparison of eating pizza and hitting a breaking ball.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kyle, are you a lawyer? &#8216;Cause that would explain you reducing my argument to a literal comparison of eating pizza and hitting a breaking ball.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle J</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68443</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68443</guid>
		<description>To sum up:

Hitting a breaking ball = Not eating pizza

The idea that what a player is saying publicly when they&#039;re in a slump is somehow a measure of how much they care about getting better is pretty implausible to me.  All hitters sound like idiots when they&#039;re in a slump.

Example:

&quot;Quality at-bats, that&#039;s what you want to have here in Spring Training,&quot; Pujols said. &quot;Obviously the last couple of weeks have been tough. I haven&#039;t been seeing the ball too good. I&#039;ve been working the last couple of days and I&#039;m seeing the ball better and putting [together] better at-bats. That&#039;s where you want to be.&quot; 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070327&amp;content_id=1862414&amp;vkey=spt2007news&amp;fext=.jsp&amp;c_id=stl

Albert seemed to really care about &quot;seeing the ball better&quot;--yet somehow he had had a terrible April, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To sum up:</p>
<p>Hitting a breaking ball = Not eating pizza</p>
<p>The idea that what a player is saying publicly when they&#8217;re in a slump is somehow a measure of how much they care about getting better is pretty implausible to me.  All hitters sound like idiots when they&#8217;re in a slump.</p>
<p>Example:</p>
<p>&#8220;Quality at-bats, that&#8217;s what you want to have here in Spring Training,&#8221; Pujols said. &#8220;Obviously the last couple of weeks have been tough. I haven&#8217;t been seeing the ball too good. I&#8217;ve been working the last couple of days and I&#8217;m seeing the ball better and putting [together] better at-bats. That&#8217;s where you want to be.&#8221; </p>
<p><a href="http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070327&#038;content_id=1862414&#038;vkey=spt2007news&#038;fext=.jsp&#038;c_id=stl" rel="nofollow">http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=stl</a></p>
<p>Albert seemed to really care about &#8220;seeing the ball better&#8221;&#8211;yet somehow he had had a terrible April, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68441</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68441</guid>
		<description>My endless negative thinking has been driven by my beloved team&#039;s second straight second half collapse. I&#039;ve said many times on this blog that Granderson&#039;s a great player, but I&#039;m sorry that i interpet G&#039;s remark as a). a recent problem when it has been prevalent over the last 90% of his mlb at-bats and b). expressing surprise or whatever you want to call that he&#039;s not getting fastballs. Granderson&#039;s inability to hit lefties is what stops him from being a potential MVP player. It as if Prince Fielder said &#039;I don&#039;t know, i&#039;m not eating pizza, but i continue to gain weight.&#039; That&#039;s not what i want to hear; i want to hear &#039;i&#039;m gonna lose weight before i eat my way out of a Hall of Fame career.&#039;
I will admit that using the phrase &#039;self-awareness&#039; was incorrect and sounds like i just got out of an est-psych seminar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My endless negative thinking has been driven by my beloved team&#8217;s second straight second half collapse. I&#8217;ve said many times on this blog that Granderson&#8217;s a great player, but I&#8217;m sorry that i interpet G&#8217;s remark as a). a recent problem when it has been prevalent over the last 90% of his mlb at-bats and b). expressing surprise or whatever you want to call that he&#8217;s not getting fastballs. Granderson&#8217;s inability to hit lefties is what stops him from being a potential MVP player. It as if Prince Fielder said &#8216;I don&#8217;t know, i&#8217;m not eating pizza, but i continue to gain weight.&#8217; That&#8217;s not what i want to hear; i want to hear &#8216;i&#8217;m gonna lose weight before i eat my way out of a Hall of Fame career.&#8217;<br />
I will admit that using the phrase &#8216;self-awareness&#8217; was incorrect and sounds like i just got out of an est-psych seminar.</p>
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		<title>By: greg</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68440</link>
		<dc:creator>greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68440</guid>
		<description>Mike, 

I read that too, and that is concerning.  We just have to hope that he is ok, I don&#039;t have a good feeling about that one.   If his elbow is bothering him, it would explain alot.  In any event, if he&#039;s NOT ok, we really NEED someone to recognize this(if he&#039;s not right, him continueing to pitch would only hurt the team now AND in the future(if he he makes it worse by pressing through it)) and then we can plug someone else in there.  Either Miner, who has shown signs that he might be capable of stepping up in such a role recently, or Jair, in a couple of weeks, if he&#039;s ready.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, </p>
<p>I read that too, and that is concerning.  We just have to hope that he is ok, I don&#8217;t have a good feeling about that one.   If his elbow is bothering him, it would explain alot.  In any event, if he&#8217;s NOT ok, we really NEED someone to recognize this(if he&#8217;s not right, him continueing to pitch would only hurt the team now AND in the future(if he he makes it worse by pressing through it)) and then we can plug someone else in there.  Either Miner, who has shown signs that he might be capable of stepping up in such a role recently, or Jair, in a couple of weeks, if he&#8217;s ready.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle J</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68439</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68439</guid>
		<description>Not trying to be nasty, Stephen.  Just trying to get some explanation of the thinking behind your neverending stream of negative comments.

Here&#039;s the full story:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&amp;id=3004014

(The headline, BTW, is &quot;Granderson having a remarkable statistical season.&quot;  But, again, better to discard any positive commentary--too confusing.)

He refers to the &quot;past few years.&quot;  He&#039;d only been a major leaguer for one full year prior to this season.  So maybe that covers the minors, too?

And there&#039;s nothing in the quote that indicates he&#039;s using the lack of fastballs as an excuse.  On the contrary, isn&#039;t recognizing that you&#039;re not getting as many fastballs the sort of thing you need to do before you make adjustments?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not trying to be nasty, Stephen.  Just trying to get some explanation of the thinking behind your neverending stream of negative comments.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the full story:</p>
<p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&#038;id=3004014" rel="nofollow">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3004014</a></p>
<p>(The headline, BTW, is &#8220;Granderson having a remarkable statistical season.&#8221;  But, again, better to discard any positive commentary&#8211;too confusing.)</p>
<p>He refers to the &#8220;past few years.&#8221;  He&#8217;d only been a major leaguer for one full year prior to this season.  So maybe that covers the minors, too?</p>
<p>And there&#8217;s nothing in the quote that indicates he&#8217;s using the lack of fastballs as an excuse.  On the contrary, isn&#8217;t recognizing that you&#8217;re not getting as many fastballs the sort of thing you need to do before you make adjustments?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike G</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68438</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68438</guid>
		<description>In case we didnt have enough working against the Tigers playoff hopes right now:

&quot;After Jim came over, [Bonderman] said that his elbow bothered him a little bit,&quot; Rodriguez said, adding that Bonderman wanted to stay in the game. &quot;And then he threw the next two pitches at 88-89 [mph]. So probably, he was protecting his arm in that situation.&quot;

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20070904&amp;content_id=2189306&amp;vkey=recap&amp;fext=.jsp&amp;c_id=det

Just great....

Also, incidentally, I learned that for whatever reason, this reply form doesnt work from the laptop that I took with me to California for work this last month, so I have been forced to be silent through the slide....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In case we didnt have enough working against the Tigers playoff hopes right now:</p>
<p>&#8220;After Jim came over, [Bonderman] said that his elbow bothered him a little bit,&#8221; Rodriguez said, adding that Bonderman wanted to stay in the game. &#8220;And then he threw the next two pitches at 88-89 [mph]. So probably, he was protecting his arm in that situation.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20070904&#038;content_id=2189306&#038;vkey=recap&#038;fext=.jsp&#038;c_id=det" rel="nofollow">http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/.....8;c_id=det</a></p>
<p>Just great&#8230;.</p>
<p>Also, incidentally, I learned that for whatever reason, this reply form doesnt work from the laptop that I took with me to California for work this last month, so I have been forced to be silent through the slide&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68437</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68437</guid>
		<description>Well, Kyle, no need to get nasty. But in the story he&#039;s clearly talking about his major league experience.  I just don&#039;t think Ted Williams, Al Kaline, or Albert Pujols is gonna answer the question that way. Acting surprised and saying he&#039;s not getting fastballs this year is a cop-out not worthy of his talent. If Granderson wants to be a superstar--and not just  a star- he&#039;s got to have a different approach other than &#039;i&#039;m not getting fastballs&#039; when it comes to hitting lefties. When two of your regulars, Inge and Granderson, are lamenting how they&#039;re getting pitched as an excuse for poor performance that&#039;s not a championship attitude. I actually don&#039;t ever remember a major league player explaining a slump away with that excuse before and we have two guys using it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Kyle, no need to get nasty. But in the story he&#8217;s clearly talking about his major league experience.  I just don&#8217;t think Ted Williams, Al Kaline, or Albert Pujols is gonna answer the question that way. Acting surprised and saying he&#8217;s not getting fastballs this year is a cop-out not worthy of his talent. If Granderson wants to be a superstar&#8211;and not just  a star- he&#8217;s got to have a different approach other than &#8216;i&#8217;m not getting fastballs&#8217; when it comes to hitting lefties. When two of your regulars, Inge and Granderson, are lamenting how they&#8217;re getting pitched as an excuse for poor performance that&#8217;s not a championship attitude. I actually don&#8217;t ever remember a major league player explaining a slump away with that excuse before and we have two guys using it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle J</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68434</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68434</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re starting to strain credibility, Stephen.  Do you think maybe Granderson is also working off his experience in college and the minor leagues?  Is it really plausible that a player who has increased his overall slugging percentage by 116 points from one year to the next has &quot;a complete utter lack of self-awareness&quot;?

Hitting adjustments aren&#039;t simple.  That&#039;s why a guy like Pujols can struggle for an extended stretch.  Granderson&#039;s obviously made amazing adjustments against right-handers.  And it&#039;s pretty obvious to all observers that Granderson is one of the brightest young players in the game.  The struggles against left-handers this year are perplexing, but are only one side of the coin.

I guess that&#039;s bit too much complexity in the analysis, though.  I guess it&#039;s best to stick with a complete lack of heart, will to win, and self-awareness to explain aboslutely everything that&#039;s occurred this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re starting to strain credibility, Stephen.  Do you think maybe Granderson is also working off his experience in college and the minor leagues?  Is it really plausible that a player who has increased his overall slugging percentage by 116 points from one year to the next has &#8220;a complete utter lack of self-awareness&#8221;?</p>
<p>Hitting adjustments aren&#8217;t simple.  That&#8217;s why a guy like Pujols can struggle for an extended stretch.  Granderson&#8217;s obviously made amazing adjustments against right-handers.  And it&#8217;s pretty obvious to all observers that Granderson is one of the brightest young players in the game.  The struggles against left-handers this year are perplexing, but are only one side of the coin.</p>
<p>I guess that&#8217;s bit too much complexity in the analysis, though.  I guess it&#8217;s best to stick with a complete lack of heart, will to win, and self-awareness to explain aboslutely everything that&#8217;s occurred this year.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68433</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68433</guid>
		<description>Granderson channeling Inge:

&quot;It&#039;s funny, in the past few years, I&#039;ve hit about the same against righties and lefties,&#039;&#039; Granderson said. &quot;But I think teams have adjusted; I&#039;m just not getting the fastballs that I&#039;m used to getting.&#039;&#039;
I don&#039;t know what he is talking about. Last year there was a differential of over 50 points and this year the difference is 150 points. Is he talking about 05 when he had 25 ab&#039;s against lefties?
This is what makes me crazy about this team. A complete utter lack of self-awareness. Without that, even a stud like Granderson won&#039;t get better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Granderson channeling Inge:</p>
<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s funny, in the past few years, I&#8217;ve hit about the same against righties and lefties,&#8221; Granderson said. &#8220;But I think teams have adjusted; I&#8217;m just not getting the fastballs that I&#8217;m used to getting.&#8221;<br />
I don&#8217;t know what he is talking about. Last year there was a differential of over 50 points and this year the difference is 150 points. Is he talking about 05 when he had 25 ab&#8217;s against lefties?<br />
This is what makes me crazy about this team. A complete utter lack of self-awareness. Without that, even a stud like Granderson won&#8217;t get better.</p>
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		<title>By: ez</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68432</link>
		<dc:creator>ez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68432</guid>
		<description>Greg,

Really nice post. Most certainly you do not have rose colored glasses on. Your comments were written in real world, not dreamland. With the Lions ready to disappoint (again) it is easy to lose track of reality. I need to remember that Dave Dombroski not Matt Millen runs the Tigers. Of course, eventually we do have to suck it up and kick it in, but we are far from dead. 

Thanks for the reminder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg,</p>
<p>Really nice post. Most certainly you do not have rose colored glasses on. Your comments were written in real world, not dreamland. With the Lions ready to disappoint (again) it is easy to lose track of reality. I need to remember that Dave Dombroski not Matt Millen runs the Tigers. Of course, eventually we do have to suck it up and kick it in, but we are far from dead. </p>
<p>Thanks for the reminder.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill A \ Kal.MI</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68430</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill A \ Kal.MI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68430</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Kenny’s pitching &lt;/blockquote&gt;

yep

we&#039;ll chat about that tw</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Kenny’s pitching </p></blockquote>
<p>yep</p>
<p>we&#8217;ll chat about that tw</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan S</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68427</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68427</guid>
		<description>Greg - thanks for that post.  With every loss recently, I&#039;ve been ready to come on here and write that &quot;it&#039;s now over&quot; for the Tigers.  But somehow, each time, I find a way to regain hope.  You pulled me back from the precipice this time.  Those of us who are remaining hopeful are surely setting ourselves up for more and more heartache.  But isn&#039;t that what being a sports fan is all about?  I&#039;ll hang on every game until something&#039;s official - either they&#039;re in or they&#039;re eliminated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg &#8211; thanks for that post.  With every loss recently, I&#8217;ve been ready to come on here and write that &#8220;it&#8217;s now over&#8221; for the Tigers.  But somehow, each time, I find a way to regain hope.  You pulled me back from the precipice this time.  Those of us who are remaining hopeful are surely setting ourselves up for more and more heartache.  But isn&#8217;t that what being a sports fan is all about?  I&#8217;ll hang on every game until something&#8217;s official &#8211; either they&#8217;re in or they&#8217;re eliminated.</p>
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		<title>By: ron</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68426</link>
		<dc:creator>ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/09/game-138-white-sox-at-tigers/#comment-68426</guid>
		<description>Kathy, some of the players should read your comments. They would run out of the dugout with a different attitude. Leyland said he was going to change that losing attitude; but we are right back where we started from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kathy, some of the players should read your comments. They would run out of the dugout with a different attitude. Leyland said he was going to change that losing attitude; but we are right back where we started from.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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