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PREGAME: The Tigers, after taking 3 of 4 from the Yankees, head to Kauffman Stadium to take on the 4th place Royals. The Tigers looking to build on the momentum of their first series sweep in eons will send out a line up that features both Timo Perez and Ramon Santiago. See, this is the danger in having Perez on the roster is that Leyland will use him, and bat him 3rd!.
Luckily the Tigers are going up against Brian Bannister so it’s not like it will be tough. Bannister hasn’t allowed more than 3 runs in a game since July 16th, whlie pitching 7 or more innings in 5 of his last 6 starts. Left handed batters have a pretty distinct advantage against Bannister with a 769 OPS against compared to .580 for righties. Of course that probably includes a bunch of guys who normally have OPS’s of 769 or better regardless of the pitcher, which the Tigers don’t seem to possess short of Grandy and Guillen.
For the Tigers it will be Nate Robertson who has pitched better of late including a bad luck loss against the Yankees (crazy hops, crazy routes to fly balls) and a no luck no-decision against the Indians when he allowed 4 baserunners in 8 2/3 innings.
Game Time 8:05
DET @ KCR, Tuesday, August 28, 2007 Game Preview - Baseball-Reference.com
POSTGAME: I caught the first 2 innings, and got back just in time to see the 8th and 9th. So working mostly off the boxscore I see:
- Sixteen hits for the good guys. That’s good. Offense is still producing.
- Only 3 runs. I’ll have to take a look at the play by play but oh yeah there it is…
- #9 Ramon Santiago - 3 for 4, #1 Curtis Granderson/Ryan Raburn 2 for 4 plus a walk, #2 Polanco - 3 for 5, #3 Timo Perez 1 for 5, #4 Ordonez 4 for 5. One of these things is not like the others.
- But with 13 runners left on base it can’t all be Timo Perez’s fault, but he certainly gets a chunk.
- Nate Robertson, not so much in touch with his inner strike zone with 4 walks in 4 1/3 innings and 92 pitches, only 53 for strikes.
- Jason Grilli was good, again, and kept the team in the game with 3 2/3 perfect innings. He also save the rest of the pen on a night when the starter didn’t help the cause.
A disappointing result for sure and thanks for the active comment thread.
{ 347 comments… read them below or add one }
That lineup looks like swiss cheese, and smells like Lindberger. I hope Nate can pitch nine shut-out innings tonight.
omg. just when i think leyland woke up, by hitting thames 3rd instead of casey, he goes and pulls this….
Here’s hoping DD can pull off a trade for a certain hirsute catcher currently plying his trade in Oakland.
In these situations, my first instinct is to give Leyland the benefit of the doubt. Then I remember the Neifi era.
Santiago I can understand - he’s done alright in the chances he’s been given this year. But Perez has had his chances and flopped miserably.
Jim, if you need any more proof that veterans tend to be overrated, I give you the LA Dodgers - who will miss the playoffs this year because of their stern refusal to play their talented young players instead of worn out retreads.
What does Marcus Thames have to do to get in the lineup everyday? He’s slugging .486 against right-handers (with admittedly low BA and OBP–but again 1 HR every 15 ABs covers a multitude of sins).
I forgot to add… when I remember the Neifi era, I throw up.
Give me a break, Perez batting third? I guess the rationale is that hitting him in front of Maggs will get him some fastballs, but I do not have a good feeling about this. Nate has been great the last few starts, but it’s not realistic to expect him to keep turning in those types of performances. I can appreciate that Leyland values defense, but sometimes I think he overvalues it.
Why wouldn’t you bat Timo 3rd? He’s been hitting a mean .213 since 2005. This is one of the situations where you don’t want to root the team, but if Perez gets two bloop hits, it’ll just be enough Mr. Smoky to start him again. So.. i want the team to win, but Perez go 0-5. I just can’t believe he’s back in the majors, much less batting #3.
meant to say where you don’t want to root against the team..
Timo Perez!?
3rd!!??
It was a questionable call bringing him back to begin with but to stick him in the lineup at the 3 spot smacks of desperation. I realize he’s got to get every lefty on the team in against Bannister, but why don’t you put your proven powerless veteran (Casey) in that slot versus your never-has-been powerless veteran?
Frankly, I’d rather have Shelton in the 3 hole. These games are too damn impotant to be screwing around like this. I hope to God Leyland can pull another rabbit out of his hat with this.
Go Tigers!
is this team trying for a better draft position? they just play well vs the yankees and we get perez and casey at dh (although batting 7th is better than third) and rayburn and thames sit? are they tired? do their contracts call for tuesdays off? is leyland trying to build momentum or kill it? i know leyland plays guys when they are called up but hey…rayburn must be wondering if he is with the right organization. can you imagine if neifi wasn’t suspended…we might feature the perez twins. i’ll bet maggs is pi%%*d.
i would rather have a fiftysomething larry herndon play left field on arthritic knees. or bobby higginson.
Neo-Neifi.
Billfer’s pregame and the comments bemoaning Jimmy Ballgame’s use of Timo are hilarious.
Stephen’s right, we have to hope the team wins but Timo manages to play his way out of the lineup immediately. Knowing Leyland, that will be nearly impossible because for the latter to happen he’s gonna have to go hitless with several Ks, a GIDP, and make 3 errors. Tough stuff for any team to overcome.
Oh, and he’ll also have to crap his pants on a swing and miss and accidentally hit the button the sends nukes flying to China.
i understand resting pudge on night-day games but aside from that your best 9 gotta play every day. the thoroughbreds never get tired and they give you the best chance to win. the indians are already up 3-0…we don’t have a 6 game lead…the best 9 have to play every day.
Ridiculous lineup. Then again, should we expect anything less from Leyland? Strategy, lineups, game management are not his forte.
We are foolishly optimistic if we think Perez will “not hit” his way out of the lineup. Leyland insisted on running Neifi out there on a consistent basis, despite the sub-300 OPS. I have a geeling Timo will get his ABs.
The best we can hope for is an injury or some bizarre Neifi-like positive drug test suspension.
Cleveland up 3-0 on Minny, bottom 4.
Let’s real-time blog Timo’s at bats!
Why is Timo batting 3rd?
Leyland: because that’s where i want to hit him
“Why is Timo Perez hitting 3rd?”
“Because that’s where I want to hit him.”
I hate these responses from Leyland. Good response though considering it’s indefensible.
And Timo just hit into a double play that wasn’t called a double play. Well done!
AT least Timo can run, he gives Maggs an AB
Yeah, he sure looked out to me.
Leyland can come across as the petulant dictator of a bananna republic sometimes.
not even a real banana republic. a bananna republic. which is the fruit equivalent of the faux crab meat in bad sushi.
Basically it’s “I don’t have a reason just playing one of my many hunches that just don’t work out but no one wants to ever call me on it because i do nothing wrong and god forbid a beat writer go against anything I say” when he says “That’s where I want to hit him.” Give a real reason. Justify it.
But I don’t blame him. Timo shouldn’t be up when we have Granderson, Magglio, Maybin, Thames, Raburn who are all OFers.
I will go the pro-Timo route, just to be different.
I think it’s safe to say he started this rally.
Nope, can’t do it. He still sucks.
Was doing some quick figuring to compare the detroit and cleveland schedules from here on out and see if there was any merit to the “feel” i get just by looking at the schedules that tells me that deteroits schedule is slightly easier. In terms of pythagorean wins, and excluding the games against each other, Detroit will face a team for each of the 28 games with an average of 61.3 pyth. wins (standard dev = 6.2). In the same number of games, Clevelands opponent will average 63.1 wins (standard dev = 6.8). I’m not really sure how big of a difference this should be considered, but I do think it shows that if anything Detroit will face a slightly easier path, and they will more consistantly play against those easier teams.
Leyland doesn’t have to justify anything to anyone other than Dombro and Ilitch. Like it’s anything new for a coach or manager to offer a detailed explanation of every decision he makes.
And for the most part, other than the most diehard fanatics (people on this site for example) people don’t care. It’s not like he’s sending troops into Iraq.
Not to offer.
If there’s only one reason — amoung 99 reasons why Perez should NOT bat third — it’s because we have some speed/base running ability in front of Ordonez’s bat. Why didn’t Perez attempt a steal? We could have ourselves a 1-0 game right now. In case Leyland hasn’t read the newspapers lately, we’re 2 1/2 games back. It’s time to get aggressive. Perez should have tried to steal before Ordonez got his hit.
I’m very disappointed in this lineup. And not impressed so far with the way Jim Leyland managed the our first scoring opportunity.
Rod Allen: Some of you may be wondering what’s the use of tagging up and going to third.
Nope! Not wondering because this isn’t the first game I’ve watched.
robertson is a sharp as a crayon so far
See, now he’s closer to home Stephen. It’s easier to score from 3rd than it is from 2nd. Also, the round thing the pitcher is throwing around is called a ball.
I have to watch on Gameday, are the pitch locations accurate? It looks like Nate is all over the place…
The pitcher is the guy on the hillock at the center of the diamond that is formed by the 3 “bases” and “home plate.”
Anyone else finding Rod Allen a bit stale? The things that were once funny have just become a bit annoying to me.
Wait, I said stuff after that. I suck at the internet.
Stephen: that was funny and I thought the same thing. I mean really? The viewers deserve more cred than that.
They need to make a t shirt with both Neifi and Timo on it…Id wear that in my casket
I guess we shouldn’t complain too much. i was watching the Royals-Indians game on Sunday and the Indians announcers were awful. I thought i’d stumbled on to a cable access broadcast of the Cape Cod league.
I got a bad feeling about this game. That first time through the lineup was terrible and Nate looks pretty rough here.
On the other side of the spectrum, the Yankees and Boston are tied at 2 in the 5th. Definitely feels like the playoffs in NYC.
I saw a Indian’s game with the Cleveland crew and I thought they were solid. Not the greatest, but not Hawk Harrelson.
Hmm. Rod talking about Alex Gordon not being ready for the majors, camera shoots to Maybin. Someone in the production truck has a sense of irony.
nice peg!
Jeter. Solo shot. 3-2
There’s a direct correlation between the amount of sober you are not and how funny rod and allen are.
I agree that the Cleveland guys aren’t that bad. Their tone and delivery sucks but I think they talk about a game intelligently. And their not total homers.
The Angels guys are pretty bad.
Meanwhile, the Yankees have about 5 different color guys. Singleton, Flaherty, Leiter, O’Neill and Murcer. They need a broadcasting salary cap.
Hahaha! Judging from that sentence Jim, you must be finding Rod absolutely hilarious right now.
You like college football?
i do like college football.
it’s a lot of fun.
it’s almost haiku!
This may turn into a long and infuriating game
I’m about to achieve total Timosity.
OMG, Bannister is so slow. Drags out every pitch.
Oh man. I’m losing it over that haiku.
Joey:
I have the morning off tommorw and am taking full advantage.
btw, as ive saidbefore I love that rod and mario are homers!
Timosity can lead to franchise malaise and, in some cases, a ballclub falling out of contention. Timo should not be handled by pregnant woman or ardent fans. If Timosity continues, consult your doctor or feel free to heckle manager on next homestand.
Timo Ruth really squaring up the baseball.
Proving once again we can work a lineup better than Leyland?
My god, TIMO?
btw Joey I gotta calm down over here cuz u may not hear from me the rest o the game if all my posts end up moderated lol!
Manny Ramirez wears a tent to play baseball.
timo was coming up in sept anyway…i bet we see more of him than we want…if i was a struggling no talent i would sure want leyland in my corner…i might get a career from his managing.
When I see crap like Timo Perez batting 3rd in a pennant race I remember that Leyland is below .500 for his career….then it all makes sense.
Well, I don’t think Timo is going to be the deciding factor in this game. Maybe, Nate, though.
***I got a bad feeling about this game. That first time through the lineup was terrible and Nate looks pretty rough here***
How can you not feel bad about this game give the lineup?
This lineup is like a fuel line with air bubbles in it… a lot of sputtering. I think if we score two runs we’ll be doing the lineup justice.
Nate settling down is good
You think one of us could sneak into the dugout in a Tiger uniform and find ourselves playing batting 3rd and play LF? Somebody should try that.
Jim? You got an off day next time the Tigers are in town?
Alright, I’ll put myself out there and defend Timo. Not because I think he’s some sort of savior or even will have long-term success in the bigs, but because I mostly because I am so sick and tired of all these negative and pessimistic posts, on this topic and just about every other topic over the last month. Sometimes I read the game comments and get confused whether this is a tigers or indians blog.
So here goes– Timo has been hitting pretty well over the last couple months. .309/.356/.472 on the season. That puts him 7th in the league in average, and top 20 in slugging and OBP. He leads whole international league in total hits (151), second in doubles (39), and top 25 in homeruns (13), putting him near the top of the league in total bases (231). Add to that 69 RBI’s in 122 games and its a good looking season.
Now I don’t really want to hear back from all the negative nancy’s out there saying that these numbers don’t translate to the majors. His big league resume doesnt look like these splits. But that is besides the point. He hasn’t put up numbers like this in AAA prior to this season either, and the sample size of experience this season with the Tigers is too small to extrapolate from. Anyways, he’s not here to drive in runs or hit homeruns. Offensively his job is to get on base. That simple.
For you Shelton lovers, please give me one reason why he belongs here over Timo? If you actually believe that you either a)havent looked at Timo’s #’s, b) erroneously believe that 3 games constitutes a sufficient sample size, or c)have been smoking something and still think its April, 2006.
Have at it.
bwaaaahahahaa nice one there by buck.
Kathy, the thing is putting Timo is just putting the team at a terrific disadvantage. Different players will have ups and downs, but if you start a no-hoper in third slot that makes you think tim doaghy is managing the tigers.
Jason, you don’t read enough of my comments obviously, as I am the town clown.
Trade Maybin!
Sorry Jason, no sale! I’ll call your argument the Hessman Principle.
Twinkies need to step it up…
Jason,
Bold.
How come Buck didn’t wait to see if Pudge’s bunt would roll foul?
And if Timo’s job is to get on base, well, he sucks at it. .301 obp as a major leaguer.
Timo needs to step into a pitch.
I’ve never seen a foul stop right on the line like that. Weird, but I’ll take it.
I have to say though Jason, you’d know you were at an Indians blog when you encountered a bunch of negative posts about the Indians play the past couple of months.
And Timo’s oba over his last major league 500 abs is roughly .278. That has to be worst in the majors in that time period for an outfielder.
RE: Al Leiter and the Yankees broadcasters please refer to the most recent entry at Fire Joe Morgan
http://www.firejoemorgan.com
” I was watching the YES broadcast of the Yanks / Tigers game on Saturday, with Wang pitching. I’ve heard that Wang is much better from the windup than the stretch, and this seems true based on what I’ve seen. However, discussing this, Kay and Al Leiter had this exchange (paraphasing):
Kay: “…And when Wang pitches from the windup, his ERA is .53! That’s like a high school ERA!” (I don’t really understand what this means, but whatever). “His ERA from the stretch, though, is almost 16.00! That difference is ‘UGE! So Wang really has trouble pitching from the stretch.”
Leiter: (not sure if he was just dodging Kay as much as he could or not) “Yeah, Greg Maddux told me once that you should always warm up from the stretch, since that’s how you’ll be throwing your most important pitches…”
Then Kay basically repeats how amazing the large difference between Wang’s stretch and windup ERAs is.
When nobody is on base, his ERA is small. And when runners are on base, his ERA is high. Wow.
You heard it there first, people. The number of solo homers Chien Ming Wang gives up is smaller than the number of runs scored on him by all other methods combined.”
Rod, why do they have to find Billy Butler a position? He’s the first big time full-time DH prospect. Why put him in the field when he’s a bad fielder?
4-3 tribe.
I wish we had bully butler..
Eh, quit ripping on Rod. Him and Mario are a lot better than who we could be stuck with elsewhere. It’s gotta be tough to come up with enough good chatter to fill approx. 3 hours a night for roughly 155 games. Give him a break.
Hahaha. I like how Jason dismisses the fact that Triple-A numbers don’t translate to the Majors. They don’t. Ask the countless examples of Triple-A all stars that can’t hack it in the Majors. There is a reason he was signed to a minor league deal and placed in Triple-A. Guys like him, Mike Hessman, etc are just roster fillers that provide depth that you don’t want to have to use.
Not to mention the fact that we have 5 outfielders on this 25 man roster right now, rendering Timo Perez useless, minus the fact that he’s going to be taking AB’s away from better players.
That little 80-81 mph whatever nate is throwing inside to rightys is awesome
Jason, I’m not saying bringing Shelton up would send the Tigers immediately to the post-season, but at least there is an April 2006 in his career. If you’re looking for lightning in a bottle, who is more likely to deliver?
I’d feel bad about ripping Rod except for the fact that he is making at least 350 grand a year and he’s probably not monitoring this web site.
Good lord. Petit has thrown 120 pitches through 6. I guess he’s done for the night.
Mike: Case in point Virgil Vazquez. Can’t seem to do well in the bigs
Stepehn: I stil say it’d be alotta fun to watch a tiggers game with a beer and ROd
That was strike three. He gave that pitch to bannister buh
This is terrifying.
Oh, well that’s just not good. man, sober is just not gonna work tonight
I predict right now Timo will hit a game winning grand slam.
Mark it, count it, quote it. You heard it here first.
Why do I feel like I’m talking to myself? WHere are you guys.
I just got back from a gathering sans TVs, looked at the game situation, then looked at the box score. This lineup is inexcusable. I’m not one to bash managers, but this lineup was just begging to be shut down by a hot pitcher. The team is in a pennant race and they put a lousy hitter in the 3 slot and another one playing short, thereby pushing Thames, Maybin, and Raburn out of the lineup. Absolutely inexcusable.
Is it just me or have the umps been squeezing our guys lately? Maybe I’m just being a homer, but there were at least two strikes there that were not called.
that first strike on grandy was an absolute joke too..
Time for Timo(!) to shine!
Huge to answer right back this inning
wow, rod allen just praised grandy for going to third from second on a single.
I’d take a double play here from timo.
Wow. Just wow. I’m gonna go hang myself ttyl.
Timo…ugh
Oh Timo, thank you for disappointing me in my meager request.
Special welcome to Timo Perez the new Black Hole of Suck in the batting order.
Hey leyland, how’s that batting a horrible player in the #3 slot going?
I miss Omar Infante…
Yeah, I gotta say Thames would have had a better chance of getting that run in.
Speaking of whom…what must be going through his head?
Or even C-Mo…anything instead of Perez. Perez’s do not tend to hit well wearing the old english D
Crap. Cleveland just added another 2 runs.
This is just horrible execution. First and third NO OUTS… and we can’t cash in. Ohh, I forgot about the HUGE hole in the 3 spot. We can’t even get in the second run.
Nice job, Jimmy. Nice Job. It feels good to fall 3 1/2 games back.
C’mon Ivan.
Gonna load em up…
For Pudge.
What do we have in this lineup, 3 good hitters?
Did Pudge just swing at the first pitch?
timo perez may be the worst major leaguer to play for the tigers since, uh, rod allen.
Games not over yet now…
But really atleat Thames would have put the ball in the air.
Oh and Pudge Cerano.
Ivan the Terrible
Disgusting.
New scouting report on the Detroit Tigers:
Walk Polonco, Ordonez, and Guillen. Pitch to everybody else. (So what if walk the bases loaded? You’ll get all the outs you need from the rest of the lineup).
Man. what happened to this game
Twins are making it interesting in the 9th. I just switched over.
Tyner just laid down a great bunt for a base hit. One out.
Ok, I apologize to Rod. My emotions got away from me. he did have a magical 9 for 27 streak in 84.
Double.
2nd and 3rd with one out in the 9th.
ha ha. but you know what I’d kill someone (literally) to go 9/27 in the bigs.
Hey, he got a ring too dont forget
top 5 batters. what do you notice?
C. Granderson CF 2-3
P. Polanco 2B 2-3
T. Perez LF 0-3
M. Ordonez RF 2-3
C. Guillen 1B 1-2
And, Pudge with a bases loaded situation grounds out softly on the first pitch.
Was I supposed to be surprised we didn’t score with first and third no outs?
And..wait, why was Granderson going home on a groundout to the pitcher?
Honestly, if I’m Marcus Thames I walk at the end of the season. There’s no reason for him to not be playing everyday, be it at 1st or in LF. There has to be somewhere else out there where he can get 400 AB’s a year. Detroit clearly is not that place.
Morneau just struck out looking to end the game.
I hate the Indians.
Actually, i was more channeling Rod’s career 11-50 with a .260 slugging %. Tres timo.
well nate doesnt have it.
I couldn’t agree more Mike R. Thames has really been treated like a turd.
I was just saying to my wife, ‘i don’t know why he’s leaving nate in against a righty that has a bit of power’..
then bam. Grilli was warmed up. Mind boggling.
This is classic 07 Tigers; studs before a sold out crowd, lose interest against Royals a night later. Guess what? Games count just as much!
Annnnnnnddddddd that is why Billy Butler doesn’t need a position. Seriously, he plays for KC but I absolutely love watching this kid hit. Just 21 and he can flat out MASH.
Also, I don’t think Allen got a ring from the 84 team. Did he play for them in the playoffs that year? baseball-reference isn’t loading for me right now. I know the ring he does wear is from the 01 Diamondbacks team.
Jabba. Looking tough.
I hope the Tigers sign a prospect named Yoda.
And Billy Butler, AKA God, makes his presence known.
3.5 games back.
Leyland has a freakish obsession with fielding: witness Santiago and Neifi playing ahead of Infante this year and last. I’m sure Leyland, rightfully to a degree, thinks Thames sucks as an outfielder and Maybin has butchered his left field audition, so he plays Timo. I don’t agree, but to bat him third is literally borderline negligence. It defies any logic. There is no case that can be made. Literally no case.
Butler has absolutely killed th