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PREGAME: Tigers pitching is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re gonna get. Today it is Nate Robertson and Jake Westbrook.
Game time 1:05pm
CLE @ DET, Thursday, August 23, 2007 Game Preview - Baseball-Reference.com
POSTGAME: Get away day hasn’t been friendly to the Tigers this year. I don’t have the inclination to go back and look up the record, but it seems that I listen to a heartbreaking loss on the radio at work, and have to think of something to say later that night. Again, I didn’t see this one, just going by the radio broadcast and your commentary, here are my thoughts:
- Nate Robertson was one of those really yummy caramel flavored chocolates today (uh, that doesn’t sound quite right). He out pitched Westbrook, but didn’t get the win, and that just seems to be Nate’s luck as of late. When he’s awesome, he still can’t get a win. Still he did everything in his power to get the team a W, and he at least provides a little hope going forward.
- And Westbrook was also very good, but Nate out pitched him. One could make the case that on Tuesday Carmona out pitched Jurrjens so this might be justice, but that ain’t a lot of consolation. And Carmona still allowed 2 homers (or at least one and a half).
- Sean Casey batting third is a mystery. I like Guillen behind Maggs, so I’m not necessarily on the Guillen to the 3rd spot camp. But do something different. Drop Grandy to 3rd, or put Marcus third. Or even keep Granderson and Polanco where they are, and slide everybody up a spot. Give me some kind of threat before the best hitter.
- As for the managerial decisions, I can’t say one way or the other on pulling Nate when he did. It sounded like there were several harder hit balls in the last couple innings. Not seeing the game I’m just going off of Dan and Jim’s account. While I’m a proponent of using pitch counts as a tool (a tool, not an absolute) in deciding when to stop an outing, I don’t think a favorable pitch count should be a justification for keeping a pitcher in the game.
- On Zumaya, I wasn’t surprised he came back out. I was surprised he stayed out as long as he did. Thirty pitches is a ton for a guy just getting back, and with him maxing out at 95mph it doesn’t sound like this was free and easy throwing - not to mention all the guys on base.
- As for the pinch running and pinch hitting, I wasn’t bothered by Pudge pinch running for Rabelo. Yes, Maybin is faster but in the even they didn’t score you’d need Pudge at that point anyways. And Pudge is fast. Characterizing him as a 35 year old catcher is factually correct, but not accurate reflection of his running ability.
- The pinch hitting move that had to be made though was someone, preferably Raburn, for Ramon Santiago. You then move Guillen to short, Thames to first, and Raburn in left. Santiago just can’t hit in that situation. He’s not on the team for his bat, if that was the case Infante would be in Detroit and not Toledo. He’s here for his glove and expecting offense isn’t fair.
- Granderson or Maybin facing the left hander? Again I could go either way. It sounded like Granderson had some of the better swings on the day, but his numbers against lefties are abysmal this year. But I’d also wager that is a little bit of bad luck. His K rate against lefties is pretty much the same as last year, but his batting average on balls in play is 206 this year versus 298 last year. Regardless, he still stood a 30% chance of fanning.
- Regardless, Leyland appeared to fall asleep at the wheel in the 9th inning and the top of the 10th. last year he was credited for magically “pushing all the right buttons” when in fact he made bad decisions routinely and got away with it.
- At least the team still had that 9, or in this case 10 inning mantra going. Each of the last 2 nights they haven’t gone down quietly even after falling behind. Though that’s little consolation.
- The fact of the matter is that it never should have gotten to these dire points in the first place. The Tigers had ample opportunity to score just that one run, and much like the Clemens and Wang games over the weekend they just couldn’t do it. But unlike those games they were putting the ball in play with only 4 K’s.
- It appears that Inge made some adjustments at the plate as he went 2 games without a strike out, and for a guy who was whiffing every other at-bat that may be progress. He also drew a walk in a key situation off a pitcher who just doesn’t walk guys. Of course that gets lost when he makes as big of a baserunning mistake as he made in getting doubled off 2nd base.
I’ll have more stuff tomorrow, but I’m pretty bummed tonight. That’s just too good of a pitching performance in too important of a game to waste.
{ 221 comments }
As a certified Inge hater I will go on record to say that his game off may have done him some good. From what I saw last night it looked like Brandon was trying to use the whole field. He went with a few pitches and drove the ball to center and to right. Further, he was swinging at strikes early in the count, rather than taking them only to swing at balls later in the count as has been his custom this whole season. If Brandon continues to swing at strikes, closes his stance (thus stops trying to pull everything), and looks to drive the ball to right, then we may see a nice improvement from him. I would be happy if he did not hit another home run all year if it meant he cut down on his strikeouts by 50% and drove his average up 25 points… Let’s hope Leyland’s message sticks.
I’m calling today’s game just short of a must-win.
i just order the rest of the season mlb package. please tigers, give me one game of enjoyment! i beg you!
ez, is that what Babe Ruth would do?
Go Tigers! It is sunny and humid here - the dog days of summer are upon us!
Why is Casey the DH and not Carlos? If they want to rest his “sore knees” it would be better for him not to play 1st.
Santiago at SS, Inge with his slump, Rabelo (ok, he is at the moment an improvement for Pudge “I don’t take walks” Rodriguez
), that’s not the most powerful lineup.
But maybe they prove me wrong and they take the example of the German Soccer Team that won yesterday against his old archrival England at the holy Wembley ground before 90.000 with a better reserve team
Tigers pitching is indeed like a box of chocolates. And Maybin in left field is stupid is as stupid does. Hopefully Pudge and Nate will be like peas and carrots today, while Bubba Thames knocks another one over the fence. We’re also going to need Granderson’s magic legs in center and on the base paths.
it’s Rabelo today…you know what that means.
Because Inge strikes out so much, I have to assume that if he could somehow put the ball in play more often, his BA would go up. On the other hand, if he is swinging early in the count just to swing early in the count, that won’t work either. He needs a plan up there. I can’t imagine a major change in approach in two days time, but anything is possible I suppose. Keep your fingers crossed and let’s see what happens.
9 Pitches in the 1st for Nate. 1-2-3
and Westbrook needs only 8 Pitches
DP = pitcher’s best friend.
Yup, that we have a catcher that has walked as much as Pudge behind the plate, hit better, and been even defensively in a fourth of the AB’s.
Nate’s velocity sitting around 88 again. Could be a long, slugging day until both starters are out of the game.
Nate looking good. This is a Tiger win today.
Good job by Nate there. He pitched Gomez like he was Babe Ruth - only one pitch over the middle.
Nate looking like a young Babe Ruth.
Strike zone seems kind of big. Maybe it won’t be a sluggers day today.
You know things are tough when the announcers are ecstatic about a double play not being turned.
I’d much prefer Guillen hitting 3rd when Sheffield’s not in the lineup. Then you can hit Thames 5th.
Nice at-bat Casey! First pitch swinging and pops it up to Gomez.
Just a quick thing, but does anyone notice that the team’s streaks and swoons almost exactly correspond to Granderson’s streaks and swoons at the plate?
He is a great player and I feel like, for whatever reason, he has the most impact on the team’s offense.
He was hot last year early and then slumped badly in august before getting it going again in the playoffs. The Tigers followed. This year he was one of the best hitters in the AL early and the Tigers scored a ton of runs and were one of the best teams. He’s been slumping in August, so has the team.
I know Sheffields effect on the teams plate discipline and Polanco/Maggs situation hitting probably has more direct impact, but for whatever reason, our offensive output seems to correspond almost directly with Granderson’s.
Just a thought
Does that mean Grandy still hasnt hit in to a DP this year?
Mike R, good point about the batting order. Why not hit Guillen third and Thames fifth around Ordonez? Put Casey sixth behind Thames. I think Carlos probably would’ve done better than a pop-up to second on the first pitch.
Will Nate struggle the second time thru the lineup? The guess here is yes.
nobody can double up Grandy
Casey’s OPS as a Tiger now under .700. That has to be worst among AL first basemen since he was acquired last August. He is absolutely terrible. And yes i remember his October. Still, he’s not gonna be in the major leagues next year except maybe as an NL 25th man/pinch hinnter.
Mike R
That’s how I would set the lineup too. And always bat I-Rod 8th.
I have to agree with Casey batting in the 6 spot. And I suppose you all heard CMO is now a cubbie for a PTNL.
I think we should bat PTNL sixth. I think he could definitely get the runner in from third with less than two outs. And PTNL is so much faster than Casey.
Can’t disagree with that, Stephen. How come you’re not working and writing articles?
How ’bout a nice piece on the Gambler?
I just think with Polanco and Granderson struggling immensely, getting someone like Guillen who gets on base regularly ahead of Magglio is a necessity. Then since Magglio and Guillen are hitting 3-4, it’d probably ensure Thames would be hitting with men on. I’d go with:
Granderson
Polanco
Guillen
Magglio
Thames
Casey
Rabelo
Inge
Santiago
Using today’s lineup, of course.
Stephen, what do you write for/about? We disagree all the time, but I’m curious.
This could be one of those games where the first team to hit a HR wins. On pace for another 2-hour contest.
Nate in nine.
Stephen:
PTNL may well turn out to be a lefthanded reliever with a bad arm.
Jesus, where the hell was Inge going on that one?? Ever heard of going halfway? That ball bounces off the wall, he scores any way.
What happened with the Inge play? I can’t get radio and gameday blows….
Grandy hit one to the wall and franklyn made a good catch on it. inge got doubled off.
good bunt by santiago tho.
he got doubled off second. the crack tv crew has decided not to talk about it or show where inge was..
Nate’s just cruisin’ - only 59 pitches after 6 innings.
Just joined, lots of comments, plenty of Babe Ruth jokes. Good times.
Hope the Mudhens feel like scoring some runs today.
Wow, I have had two people call and give me updates on Inge’s play. Can’t wait to see it tonight on replay. 1 out and Inge is on second? There is no way, NO WAY, he should be around 3rd before the ball lands. If the ball drops he scores easily anyway. Add this to his tagging 3rd when there is no force and getting picked off of 3rd on a throw from catcher to pitcher. These are plays little leaguers know not to do… These aren’t just “bonehead” plays. These are plays you see once in a lifetime. Inge will be the next one to duplicate Merkle’s Boner. Wonder what his excuse for this will be… “They expect me to run like Lou Brock!”
I (heart) Santiago
Inge: “Man, they doubled me off like I’m Captain America.”
Genius.
Don’t worry guys, if the TV crew doesn’t get on Inge, surely all of the beat writers in Detroit will criticize the team.
Oh wait.
Or Snodgrass’ muff.
Isn’t old-timey baseball grand?
The trouble is, Westbrook isn’t even good today. Score on him!
hmmmmmmm Santiago new SS and Rayburn new 3b ?
I really would like Matt Murton to be the PTBNL in the Monroe trade. Although, with Maybin’s early promotion, I have no idea what their intentions are for him moving forward.
Nate,
Very well done on Fred Snodgrass!… But Brandon already knows how to drop a ball… Merkle’s Boner will be the real challange, because it will require him to hit a ball that, were it not for the Merkle Boner Play, would normally be a hit. Right now hits are in short supply for the kid from Virginia Commonwealth.
Cheerio.
I wouldn’t expect to get much for Monroe. Some AA prospect no doubt, and since DD is prone to deal for pitching….
at this point I would’ve traded 3 runs in this game right now for Monroe.
Lets have Granderson straight steal 2nd base. Please.
EZ, I’m pretty sure that Inge just has already to be on base for Merkle’s boner to happen. I’m pretty sure that Merkle was the runner on first, and that he didn’t touch second. Could be wrong, though.
Mike I agree! Casey better come thru or i’m come burn his house down.
Bench that guy. God he blows. Chris Shelton could not be worse.
The Big Tilde?
Leyland has really pissed me off with this lineup today. Casey hitting third? That’s twice that “the Mayor” has failed to produce with a man in scoring position and less than two out.
easy to yell at casey
not so easy to hit the ball
This crucial, crucial ab for this season. Not only is it about the win, but you really don’t want to burn out your bullpen in an extra inning game with yankees in town.
Nate,
Good memory. Reading your comment I realized that you were probably right. So I looked it up.. Indeed, he did not touch second. I thought he was the batter. I stand corrected. Good memory, sir!
God that sucked.
Stephen, did we just agree on wanting Granderson to steal? I don’t know what to do. I feel the need to argue something.
I do hate the reigns Leyland puts on Granderson. What more does he have to do to get a green light? You save an out (crucial when you don’t have the proper 3 hitter up) and I’m just not a proponent of the bunt, save for rare cases.
My God, the starting pitching still pitching in the 9th inning.
Stephen it’s easy to yell and scream I don’t see you out there hitting the ball
Mike R: I write mostly about politics, sports, and movies.
If Nate gets a quick 9th here, we may save the bullpen in the 10th by letting him at least start it. Got to get out with at most, 95 pitches through 9 to get a shot to go back out (though, he won’t get a shot to go out again from Leyland anyways).
You’re right Bill, that’s why I am a fan and not getting paid 6 million dollars a year. My little league .BA was 220, but i did walk a lot. I think my ops was very similiar to casey’s.
Is your stuff online at all, Stephen?
On that Texas-Baltimore double-header last night. The Rangers won 30-3 and 9-7:
Texas set an AL record for runs in a doubleheader, surpassing the 36 scored by Detroit in 1937.
It was the ninth time a major league team scored 30 runs, the first since the Chicago Colts set the major league mark in a 36-7 rout of Louisville in a National League game on June 28, 1897, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.
…..Why is Nate getting pulled? Did he not just get out of the 8th after a double? I don’t get this.
change pitcher now
Mike: if you go here and type in my name stuff will come up:
http://nymag.com/nymag/archive/
——–applause for Nate———
Great outing.
Zoom
Good Deal
I would not have yanked Robertson to bring in a guy just off the dl with a runner in scoring position. I really hope I’m wrong.
Been watching the game on MLB Gameday, I can’t stand the suspense. I’m in Chicago, so in some ways I’m happy to see Monroe on the Cubs… he’s hard to dislike, but I’m glad he’s not getting playing time on the Tigs anymore. It’s like a happy medium. Not really sure why the Cubs would take him, they’ve got about a hundred outfielders right now.
I was wrong. I am happy.
Nice! Oh, we have missed you Zumaya!
Stephen, you were wrong (thankfully). Zumaya gets Blake on a weak grounder to Inge. C’mon boys, let’s get one here in the ninth.
ok, Zoom got’er done. good job
Please. Please. Please get a run…….
Stephen the guy altready pitched 9 innings ya gotta yank him at the first sign of trouble
Man. If we don’t win it here, Joel would’ve been good for the 10th. I still disagree with taking him out.
Man, I thought Thames just ended the game. If he doesn’t, I really would love to see Rabelo yank one out.
As much as I like passing the work day listening to a Tiger game, please let it end now.
Oh I hate Betancourt……
Bill, he gave up a 2 out double in the 8th and got a foul pop out from the next batter. He was at 91 pitches, let him finish the inning and save your bullpen as much as possible when you’ve got the best offensive team in the world coming in for 4 games.
put Rayburn in to hit for Inge
Uh, why not burn Maybin as your pinch runner? You still can bring in pudge.
Babe Ruth prolly didn’t swing at that pitch a whole lot, Brandon.
I’m guessing a K and a close play at 2nd on this 3-2 pitch.
Holy crap! Inge didn’t swing at a ball 4!
Lookin’ good here, folks.
Man, you gonna let Santiago bat in this situation?
I’d have pinch hit Rayburn there, but Inge does draw a walk. C’mon Santiago and/or Grandy. Let’s win this.
You don’t use Maybin as a pinch runner, you don’t use him to pinch hit for a AAAA batter. Why is he here?
you can’t pinch hit for santiago there? rayburn? hello? i know it’s righty-righty, but i still like those odds better than santiago.
Come on Curtis. My heart can’t take much more.
And now you have Granderson facing a lefty?! Ugh.
I agree w/ Stephen. He still could have moved Thames to first, Guillen to short, and Rayburn/Maybin to the outfield in the event that they didn’t score.
granderson has no chance here. buckle down for extras, kids.
And you could pinch hit Raburn here and put Maybin in at center. none of this make sense.
we still have .157 of a chance!
BLAH.
Perez threw Granderson 6 breaking balls - none of them were strikes.
Man, did a batter ever look like he had less of a chance? i’m sorry man, I love Grandy but you are not an All-Star if you hit .150 against lefties. And Leyland’s slavish loyalty to his regulars, no matter the situation, is just lame. The idea is to win the game and give your team the best chance to win the game. That didn’t happen in that inning.
ok we need Zoom to snuff 3 more guys for us so we can get our big hitters on the job here
So much not to like…
Casey hitting 3rd, not Carlos.
Robertson getting pulled after 91 pitches in the 9th.
Prematurely going to the bullpen meaning we’ve got one less arm for the first game against the Yanks.
A multitude of PH options with Raburn, Maybin, Pudge and none of them used.
I’m glad we’re put in the best position to win a baseball game. Now Joel gives up a double to lead things off. FIRST SIGN OF TROUBLE, MAKE A PITCHING CHANGE!!!!!!
The inning also shows Leyland has little confidence in Maybin on the basepaths. A fear of him getting picked off is the only reason you don’t use Maybin there.
The other reason you pinch run Pudge instead of Maybin, is that Pudge is still good on the basepaths and now Maybin is still availible to run for Casey, which then would move Thames to first and keep Maybin in the game.
Just a thought.
I’m so glad MLB.tv cut out and I don’t get to watch the end of this mess.
And back to earth comes Zumaya. Rats!
Bobble by Santiago. It would have been a DP.
Still, can’t afford a walk there, though.
I think we need to amend Bilfer’s comment about the pitching staff being like a box of chocolates to include, not only the hitters, but Jim Leyland’s managing, as well.
Bobble by Santiago? He’s on the team for DEFENSE. Infante could have bobbled it too, but at least he had a better shot of getting a hit today.
$%&!
1-0
hey, on the plus side Maybin and Raburn will be rested for tomorrow!
3-0
Ugh.
Good to see Zumaya fitting right in with the rest of the bullpen.
B-tha, b-tha, b-tha, b-that’s all folks!
Barring our bats turning on (with runners in scoring position) in the bottom of the inning of course.
Note to Jim Leyland:
See how the opposing manager actually tried to win the game in the yop of the tenth inning.
I bet Joba is sittin in his hotel room ROF.
Screw Leyland. That was bush league managing in the ninth. We’ll never know if we would have pushed a run across, but i’m sorry you can’t pinch run 35 year old pudge when you have a 20 yr old gazelle just sitting there, then you can’t let santiago bat, and you certainly can’t let a guy batting .157 against lefties bat in that situation. That’s just amatuer hour. He botched this one.
Oh weird, Jim Leyland making a move 2 hitters too late. Joel shouldn’t have faced Gutierrez even if he did strike him out. Certainly shouldn’t have faced Lofton. He threw 29 pitches. His 30 pitch outing in Toledo be damned, he doesn’t have things back to normal enough for an extended outing. Had he not come in in the 9th inning, that’s 7 pitches less he would’ve thrown, thus, may have been able to get him out of the inning.
I don’t think Leyland made any bad decisions in this game. We hae just failed to get runs in. We’ve had plenty of chances and didn’t capitalize.
Me and Mr. Leyland need to have a few words.
eric wedge just gave his team the best chance to win by making the necessary changes in the 10th. leyland sticks with his rally killers…glad they won’t have self esteem problems and we continue to fade. is leyland the problem this year?
I’m sorry Kathy, but you’re just wrong on this one.
What a waste. Wasted a win in the opening game of the series, wasted having your ace going yesterday, wasted scoring 8 runs yesterday, wasted a great outing by Robertson, wasted numerous opportunities to push across ONE run, and wasted Zumaya for the first game of the Yankee series.
Sad, really.
Stephen, add to Nate Robertson getting yanked after 91 pitches and not having a LHP ready at the thought of Kenny Lofton possibly coming off the bench to face Joel.
Exactly. I can’t wait to hear all the questions about his strategy in his press conference. oh that’s right, no one will dare ask them.
Betcha Robertson is puking in his bag of Big League Chew. It sure makes me sick to see this game slip away.
rod allen: ‘what a well played game.’ except for that whole inge getting doubled off and leyland asleep at the wheel.
Harry Doyle is probably looking for his Jack Daniel’s about now
Wow,
The Tigers really needed this one, I have some issues:
Sean Casey is HORRIBLE!!! Why is he batting 3rd???
Why not pinch hit for Santiago in the 9th?? I mean come on, he can play defense, but he is not here for his bat.
We have dug a deep, deep, hole.
-Sam
Pudge pinch ran, Santiago batted for himself, and Granderson faced a lefty. Did that really happen? That was just a bad dream, right?
For real. The media doesn’t question a think Leyland does.
No way Leyland should have left Zumaya in after the double.
You’re supposed to ease him back in, not leave him out to dry when his velocity is low, and you have Seay, Rodney, and Jones available.
Unbelievable.
And Maybin should have hit for Curtis. Or Raburn.
please, please, please…
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Now I get it. We were waiting to get down 3-0 and get 2 out and then use Cam to pinch run. NOW I got it.
I’d put money on this being over in 4 pitches at most.
I understand giving regulars a day off, but running Santiago, Rabelo, and Inge (with the way he’s hitting) out there is giving up a third of your at-bats, which are all the more meaningful with Sheffield out.
Not pinch hitting for Santiago in the 9th just doesn’t make sense. The reason he can’t stick in the bigs is because he can’t hit. I just don’t get it, you’ve got Rayburn, Pudge (awful choice, but better than Santiago) and Maybin on the bench. Santiago is your best option? No way.
And you have to PH for Granderson in the 9th.
-Sam
i’m begging for a hit…
And on the 4th pitch of the AB, Pudge flies out. Didn’t see that coming. How fun was this game!?!?
$%*^ me