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PREGAME: The Tigers head into today trying to salvage a split in Yankee Stadium. They’ll send out Jeremy Bonderman to try and hold down the Yankees. Bonderman picked up a no decision in his last start, but he pitched a very strong game allowing just 4 hits and 2 walks in 7 innings while fanning 8. Trouble was that was his first quality start since July 19th. Let’s hope it was a sign of him coming out of his funk instead of just a blip.
The Tigers will be opposed by Chien-Ming Wang. Wange doesn’t strike out many, doesn’t walk many, and therefore gets pretty deep into games without crossing the 100 pitch threshold. He also keeps the ball in the park with only 7 homers allowed this season, and only 2 in the Bronx. Left handers have much more success with an 804 OPS as opposed to a 624 for right handers. With the Tigers lefties Curtis Granderson (2 for his last 24) and Sean Casey (5 for his last 24) slumping as of late, this doesn’t bode well - especially with them hitting 1-2 in today’s lineup.
Placido Polanco misses yet another game, and despite previous statements Cameron Maybin will be in left field again. If you’re facing a groundball pitcher, you might as well have your fastest guy playing and trying to beat a few of those out.
Game Time 1:05
DET @ NYY, Sunday, August 19, 2007 Game Preview - Baseball-Reference.com
POSTGAME: Ugly. For the 2nd day in a row the Tigers played the Yankees even for 5 innings, and then were smoked the rest of the way. Jeremy Bonderman struggled with the strike zone walking 4 in the first 2 innings and leaving with 115 pitches in the 6th inning.
The bullpen combo of Zach Miner and Aquilino Lopez made sure the game wasn’t in doubt and that Mariano Rivera could rest. The worst part of Lopez’s performance is that it pretty much insured that it would be he, and not Jason Grilli on the way out when Joel Zumaya is activated on Tuesday.
Ryan Raburn and Mike Rabelo had nice games, combining for 5 hits, but those rallies were thwarted by 3 Brandon Inge K’s and a pop-up. Coming into today Inge was hitting 237/262/351 over the last month with 7 extra base hits, 2 walks, and 38 strikeouts. Throw in an error today that cost the Tigers a run, and their lead, and it’s safe to say he’s the anti-player of the game.
The Tigers have started this 13 game series 2-4 and now really have put themselves in a tough spot over the next 7 games.
{ 208 comments }
Need another solid outing from JB again today. What will the 1st bring today??
Judging from yesterday’s game along with this past month’s slump, this team has no chemistry. They seam to find ways to lose games. Tigers ‘07 season is a bust– a major league disapointment
But if Bondo does provide a solid outing, then either the offence will not hit or the bullpen will blow it. It seems to be a rule with this team where something has to fail in order for the Tigers to lose.
We need to bring in the psychologist from ‘The Natural’:
“Losing is a disease, as common as syphilis or polio…”
Teams slump. The Tigers arent out of it. Only 2 1/2 back of the wild card and 1 1/2 back of the Indians. This season isnt having as many magical comeback wins like last year, and the rotation is getting tired, but the offense has more talent than last year. The problem has been that the offense and starting pitching has cooled at the same time.
They will get going again. This team will get hot and get that swagger back and make a run. There is just too much talent here not to.
Im out of the area so I dont get the game today and am watching through MLB Gameday (the hotel internet connection wont support MLB.tv - lack of bandwidth).
It seems like the Tigers are hitting a lot of line drives off Wang right now. Are they looking that good against him overall or no?
We need to make him throw more pitches through. Hes only thrown 5 balls in 2 innings.
43 pitches in two innings… This is where the Tiger starters have been getting in trouble
I think Jeremy needs a shrink or something
At this rate, I’M going to need a shrink…. Man, I miss my hat…
It’s not pretty, Mike G. Casey’s had the best at bats. Grandy is really struggling and we miss Polanco. Rayburn is good but doesn’t have the D.
These games get more and more frustrating.
Bonderman sucks!!!!!!!
Really Bondo, why don’t you just wrap up the game in a bow and hand it to the Yanks and just save your team all the trouble of going through the motions? Which is all they seem capable of offensively anyway at the moment…
I hate the Yankees more than I love life. Go BoSox!!!…Go Seattle!!!!
Can someone try to bunt their way on. Long ball isn’t working. How about little ball? Oh, now it’s 2 nothing. Back to long ball? How about winning ball. Someone, please, do something.
Inge is the designated rally killer.
Inge is absolutely killing us with RISP….
I’m with the fan a few days ago who had the sign that read, “Win, please”….
As of right now Inge is tied with Grady Sizemore for most strikeouts in the American League even though he has about 100 less at bats. Yikes.
Open your eyes Inge. Take a pitch Cameron. Can Raburn double as our hitting instructor? Wow, a potential big inning snuffed out in a hurry. What else is new?
How times change.. a few years ago, when a crappy Tigers hitter came up I had no stress, it didn’t bother me at all. After all, it didn’t really matter. The Tigers weren’t going anywhere anyway. Now that it matters, ugh…how I DREAD when certain of our boys step up to the plate. It’s not a nice feeling. It *almost* makes me long for the cozy, comfy days when it didn’t matter, and I could sit anywhere in the ballpark I liked. Well, not really, but I’m sure you all get my meaning. I guess I’m still just not adjusted to the stress that comes along with the joy of a team that matters. I’d like more of that “joy” right now, however….
Is Craig Monroe available to play third base?
Craig? Craig? You there? At this point I’d rather see ANYBODY up there rather than Brandon Inge. He’s horrible.
I could care less if he gets a two out base hit next inning with no runners on. WE NEED AN OFFENSIVE PLAYER WHO CAN PUT THE BALL IN PLAY when the team needs the ball in play. HELLO? Earth to Brandon? They’re conceding the run. How about a bunt for the love of God. Anything. I’m so sick of watching you up at the plate, I don’t care how good your range is, or if you can play two positions at once in the infield at the same time for that matter. You are a SERIOUS liablity to your team right now. Horrible.
If I have to endure ONE more INGE STRIKEOUT with RISP, I’m gonna officially join the Craig Monroe fan club.
Any Inge supporters out there, bring it on. The gloves are off.
I can handle Inge as long as he’s not batting before or after, Monroe, Santiago, or more than likely, Maybin. Pudge may be joining that list soon.
Maybin has taken the first pitch for a strike in every at bat the last two days until the last AB with 2 out and runners on.
I think they instructed him to take the first pitch before, but that at bat, because there were RISP, they wanted him to try to take advantage of the first pitch strikes and be aggressive. Its a good idea but he unfortunately didnt make good contact.
I really like how the hitting coache are handling him right now though.
Errrrr Inge…..Errrrrrrr
Well, Maybin didn’t exactly show one of the five tools on that throw.
Inge is awful. Except for Punto, worst starting third baseman in the American League.
My wife has a better arm than Maybin.
I’d take Daryl Strawberry over Inge.
I’d be cutting Inge more slack right now, if the game weren’t so close, and if he hadn’t made that “force” play the other day.
Good job by bonderman to get out of that without it becoming a disaster. Hopefully our offense can get something now.
Placido looks like a man who is gearing up to play, to me…
I like how Cano fielded the ball, called his mom, and still threw Casey out by 10 feet.
Mr Torre, may we please see that guy with the 7.71 ERA next? Pretty please!!
Should have a 2 or 3 run lead.
It would prabably be a good idea to have somebody warmed up in the bullpen. Cheesewhiz maybe?
My wife runs faster than Casey.
In heels…
Hm, something Wang? HAHAHA I kill myself. I’ll be here all this week, ladies and germs…
what is wrong with bondo? he hasn’t looked good his last several starts. tigers are lucky it’s only a one run game
Let’s bring Joba back to reality. Go Gary.
Uh oh, this guy…Of all the teams, why do the Yanks get their own Zumaya???
Ever wonder what it’s like to be on the other end of ZoomZoom? Sadly, now we know.
Stupid Gameday keeps going out.
A boy toying with grown men.
Why the heck does Joba look unhappy??
Can position players record a loss? Maybe improve a pitcher’s record? Bonderman didn’t lose this game; Brandon Inge lost this game. On both sides of the ball. I can’t even look at him right now. Anything short of a walk-off grand slam home run and I’m not waivering. I don’t even want to look at him. Oh, that’s right. We’re playing at Yankee Stadium, so a walk off is impossible.
Guess you know where I stand.
Stephen: I take Punto over Inge right now.
Hey, Zack is a grown-up now!
Miner drives me nuts!
Why does Miner drive you nuts? He’s been ok-ish in the pen. The balls here are annoying, to be sure, though…
Shef, Mags and Carlos out on 9 pitches. Joba still reigns.
But at least Miner has found a strike-out pitch here and there in relief, which he never had when he started.
Yeah, I think people can stop it with the “Inge is a gold-glover” because top-class 3rd basemen don’t make that game-changing error, in the situation the Tigers are in. He’s overrated. He can’t hit. Yuck.
Well, so much for that plan.
Ah the bullpen, rarely picking up the team and keeping it at one run. And why did the coaches have Maybin playing so deep?
JML, Miner drives me nuts since last year when he absolutely fell apart. I’ve just never trusted his stuff since.
See?
The shadow of Joba is looming large at the moment.
Miner is useless… honest to Pete, I just don’t see this going anywhere at all right now.
Except for Granderson, the yankees have better positions players everywhere including closer, set-up men, bench and #2-5 starter. Verlander-Wang, we have a slight advantage. On the plus side, Rabelo can kick Molina’s ass.
Miner has been decent more often than not this year, though. Every reliever gives it up now and then. He’s not helping the cause much today, but he’s hardly been reason to jeer this year. Now Grilli on the other hand….
Look at Brandon just chuckling it up. He drives me nuts, too!
Oh Inge, how about trying to be less of the drama queen going into the second row and make the routine play and get the runner in for third.
I’ll take our Second Baseman any day.
Miner is a prefectly serviceable mop-up guy. The only problem: so is Durbin. Cheeseman is not even an 11th guy on a staff.
OK, here come our boys. Time to crInge…
For those of you with blinders on, here’s why Miner drives Kathy nuts (if I may presume to speak for her):
1. Leadoff walk. What kind of standards do you all have? You’re okay with this? A leadoff walk is okay? 30% of the time that run scores.
2. 2 ER in the 7th (Inning not even over). I guess that’s okay, too? How many runs does a pitcher have to allow before you’re NOT okay with him?
I’m thoroughly disgusted with this team right now. Lack of execution is killing us. 2 1/2 games back and sliding.
Oh man, Cano for Polanco is not a trade any GM would make. I’ll grant you it’s even for now, but Cano is going to win batting titles and is seven-eight years younger.
Your presumption is correct, TSmith.
T Smith: No one said he was having a good day TODAY. Cripes. There is a difference between speaking generally and about a specific, you know. Citing one day does not a general case make. So get off the “blinders” nonsense.
At this point in time, the Yankees just have the better team. I accept it.
T Smith: No one said he was having a good day TODAY. Cripes. There is a difference between speaking generally and about a specific, you know. Citing one day does not a general case make. So get off the “blinders” nonsense. If Kathy is uncomfortable with Miner, thats fine, I just wanted to know why (and she answered for herself, thank you very much).
Yup, we’ve been outplayed mightily today. Ah, there was the crInge moment.
Inge. Only another 3 years and 18m to go on that contract!
As good as Durbin pitched yesterday, I don’t trust his stuff either. I guess it’s the inconsistency that drives me nuts. They’re both great guys, but its the pitching and never knowing what your gonna get from them.
Five successive strikeouts with an opportunity for more.
Yikes.
A lot of people seem to think that this stretch against the Indians and the Yankees is the make or break, and certainly it will say a lot about how our boys are doing against big opponents and might perform in the playoffs if we get there this year. But frankly, I mind losing to those teams a lot less than losing in the preceding stretch against middling teams. Winning more of those games would at least have made losses now so much less important.
Kathy, I’m surely not against consistency (at least of the good kind, Mesa was consistent after all!). I guess after the really rocky start with the bullpen this year, Zach and Chad seem a lot more stable and consistent of late, though. Maybe number will or won’t bear that out, but I at least don’t crInge when I merely see them for the most part. Grilli about makes me ill on sight, however.
JML:
Okay… forget about his bad outing today. Let’s test the blinders and look at the past 30 days:
1. Record 1-2
2. ERA 4.38
3. WHIP 1.70
4. OBA .389
Yep. Them are some stellar pitching stats. I’ll grant you they aren’t as horrible as Grilli — but not exactly the kind of pitching I’d want to see pitching in a close one run game.
I guess were all just slowing easing our standards and expectations back to 2003.
I must say, when we give it up this year, we sure do it up BIG. I think our boys have become self-esteem therapists for opposing teams, both good and bad. How very nice of them.
This game is why you get bullpen a month ago even if you have Rodney and Zumaya coming back. How many games have our long men NOT kept a game close?
Thank god they have tomorrow off. It’s going to be interesting what they do with Miller; Kenny Rogers where are you; Polly possibly in recovery.
What can the Skipper do with this team.
Ha, with the awful performance of the bullpen this year, I’d have to say YES, standards are loosened more than a bit. Sad, ain’t it?
ah Maybin, down by six and swinging at the first pitch. Good thing he’s a blue chipper, ’cause that’s enough to get you sent down on many teams.
Oops. and then Granderson swings on a 2-0 pitch. That’s just bad baseball, even if you’re down by six.
So Casey’s hitting .285 with no power. Defenders come forth!
I would have liked to see them replace Grilli somehow, but what was available? Standing pat did seem unwise, but did they have much to choose from? If not, then I could see trying not to damage morale any more by saying “Well, we wanted to replace some of these guys, but couldn’t, so I guess we just have to stick with them”. If so, then Dombrowski & Co can surely be charged with negligence, sure.
JML:
Another thing:
If you lose all four of those series, it’s pretty much over. If you split the series, or go .500 in them (which means we have to win at least one of the remaining series as well as split the other two), you’re still going to have to play your best baseball for the remainder of the year, e.g. .600 plus, AND bank on help. That’s a bad spot to be in.
We could easily be 4 or 5 games back after this stretch (and that’s presuming the Tigers actually WIN some of the upcoming games). That’s a huge hole with only a month left.
Looking ahead, there is a LOT of KC, ChiSox, Tex and A’s yet to come. If our boys can just play well enough to beat poor teams, we can at least truly back into the playoffs this year. Inspiring, ain’t it?
Team chemistry? This is a toxic spill heading toward total meltdown.
It’s depressing watching them lose over and over again. Hopefully, they can regain their poise and put together some wins.
It gets worse.. Tigers play Cleveland and face Carmona tomorrow.
This season is an utter disapointment…. Tigers will end up in 3rd in central AL
Total meltdown? I guess it depends what you qualify as a meltdown. Does merely not making the playoffs count? If that’s a meltdown for some, then sure. But I think our boys can at least stay in the hunt unless Cleveland starts playing stellar ball. I’d see a ChiSox style slide as a true meltdown, and one could argue that could be in store, after the awful set of series again weak teams. But there is enough talent in the team to avoid that, if managed well. Assuming we get past the spate of injuries and illness SOON. I’m not at all confident we’ll make the playoffs, but a severe “meltdown” is avoidable. I agree the boys could be playing better as a team, of course.
WOW. i know we have had a very tough stretch and the team is not playing well at all. i know we are all disappointed and hope for better things but some of you are starting to kill this site with your negativity. i sure hope you are not carrying this over into other parts of your life…it’s baseball not bankruptcy or cancer.
ever hear about karma…ever think about supporting your team no matter what as opposed to crapping over every guy that does not perform everyday up to YOUR expectations.
i hope above hope that the tigers turn things around and make the playoffs and perhaps even win a championship but i actually hope that some of you get some balance back in your perspectives and enjoy life a little. can you imagine if inge or monroe or any other player ever read this site how it would make them feel? you think they don’t read it? would you talk like this to their faces?
i know we have freedom of speech but i wonder about all the work bilfer puts into this site and if he sometimes feels like pulling the plug on all of this.
Have the Tigers stunk since the All-Star break?
Yes.
Still, lets not go hitting the giant panic button just yet. A lot can happen in the last 6 weeks of the season (yes both good AND bad).
I’m trying to take a glass is half-full approach.
Cheers!
Now, Stephen:
There are a number of reasons to defend Casey:
1. Casey makes everybody else on the team feel good about themselves. That’s gotta count for something. For example, I’m pretty sure I could beat him in a foot race (I’m quite a bit older and outta shape, too). Result: I’m feeling pretty damn good about myself. Just think how the rest of the team feels.
2. Casey’s NICE. If you’re content on wining 80 - 85 games a year, for the next ten years, what difference does it make? Why are you being so cut-throat? Go for nice. Nice guys finish second. Better to have an enjoyable experience being as an also-ran.
3. There is absolutely NO way of Casey ever being at risk of being involved in a steroid scandal. We need someone like that on the team; it’s good PR for the Tigers given the recent Neifi debacle. We can actually thumb our nose to Selig. “See Bud? Neifi was an anomoly. We’re on the up and up; our players are on the up and up. Our players only hit 3 HRs a year.”
4. Casey hits doubles every now and then. You may not realize just how awesome a piece of hitting that is. When Casey get’s a double, it’s equivalent most other guys getting an-inside-the-park-home-run. So, cut Casey some slack. He’s already got the equivalent of 26 inside the park home runs so far this season! That’s huge.
Charlie: When the team gives ya reason to bitch, ya bitch. I’d much rather they give me reason to crow! I still think they have a decent chance to make the playoffs, but am sorry to say it as much relies on the Indians playing so-so as it does the Tigers playing better. Right now it is a race to see which team is less-bad. That can change, and it would be nice. Personally, I’m only down on one Tiger, Grilli. As for “karma”, I don’t buy into mysticism. I’ll put my confidence in talent and good management, which is why I still think the Tigers have a shot.
A Few thoughts:
1. 14 runs in a four game series, with 6 of those runs coming in the first two innings of the series? That’s just not going to win you many ballgames, I don’t care who you are playing.
2. I’m not ready to panic just yet, but I’m getting close to the edge. If the Tigers can put together a decent homestand, say 5-2 or even 4-3, they’ll be in a good position for the stretch run. I’m just not that impressed with the Indians, so I don’t think we’ll have to play lights out the rest of the way to win the Central.
3. Maybin could have a big series against the Indians. Getting out of Yankee stadium and traveling with the team will be good for him.
4. Zumaya/Polanco returning to the team can only mean good things. Neither is going to be 100% but I’ll take what I can get.
What are you talking about? Nobody mentioned Casey except you so why pick a fight out of nothing? Where do you really expect that to go?
Really? What were your expectations, just running away with the division and locking up a playoff spot in August while maintaining perfect health?
Yes, the Tigers have been playing bad for a very long time. Yes, if they don’t play better they won’t make the playoffs.
But I’m not sure that given where the team is with a quarter of the season to go can be declared an utter disappointment.
Ordonez is kinda doing okay out there in right field, that’s at least a push right?
I think what bothers me, is this is 2 melt downs post all-star break in a row. It shows me that the team seems to have a bit of a problem dealing with success. That said, they’re in the race thanks to the Indians playing nearly as bad. If….big if, but if Zumaya is 80%, Rogers is 80%, and Polanco comes back they probably make the playoffs. Time to have a sense of urgency though.
charlie:
Good post. And of course mostly on.
It’s hard not to be negative with all the frustrating play. It is also just a means of expression, to allay the mounting disappointment. How many times can you tip your cap to the opponent and pat your guys on the back, with a smile, and say, “go get ‘em next time, sport!” without some residual negativity seeping through? Good God, man. Didn’t you ever see Ground Hog Day? This is dismal stretch, and the Tigers are supposed to be a contending team. Even ron, the site’s eternal optimist, is holding back no punches.
Of course none of us should take it all that seriously. And I suspect if we didn’t (and if fans didn’t in general), baseball wouldn’t be the multi-million $ industry it is, and players and managers and owners wouldn’t be making the outlandish living that they make off the game.
That said, I would tell Monroe and Inge to their face everything I’ve said here. Something civil, for sure, to the tune of, come on, Brandon. You’re getting paid a lot of money to produce. If you can’t take the heat, go get an office job or manual labor job like the rest of us — see how life unfolds for you trying to support your familiy with a normal amount of income… maybe you might even develop a distraction or a pastime and rally around a sports team to help you negotiate the everyday stresses in your day (God help you if you’re a Tiger fan). But don’t invest TOO much into it, or take it TOO seriously, and shrug it off when the team continually fails to produce in situations where all normal circumstance points to some degree of success and joy in embracing your team.
Nobody is under the illusion that the Tigers are gonna win five WS in a row, and that anything short of that would be an absolute and utter failure, disappointment, and cause for negativity abound (see Yankee fans for those kind of expectations) but when earnest fans endure the stretch we’ve endured since the Minny series, adorned with bad breaks and comical innuendo to the point of the absurd, i.e. watching your team go from arguably the “best” team in baseball to arguably the “worst” team in baseball, you’re gonna see a lot of expression on this site — and other places too — that reflects the meltdown.
It’s just a game, to be sure. If the Tigers don’t turn in around — and I mean IN A HURRY — it won’t matter anyway. We’re all gonna have to adopt the Stewart Smiley approach to this Tigers season soon enough.
But I’m not sure that given where the team is with a quarter of the season to go can be declared an utter disappointment.
Good Point, Bill. Tampa Bay just won, so the Tigers are still only 1.5 games back, which is pretty good considering how poorly they have been playing.
I think the first team to 90 wins takes the division. For the Tigers, that means going 23-15 the rest of the way. That’s very doable, especially when you look at the relatively weak schedule they have after the current Indians/NYY super-series.
I think it is legitimate to be incredibly frustrated at a team that early this year was considered possibly the best in baseball and watch them play, for the second year in the row, over a month of baseball that isn’t merely mediocre, but simply among the worst in all of baseball.
When you see bewildering management moves;no shoring up, big, medium, or small at any position come trade time; combine that with the insane flip flop on Maybin–from no September call-up to let’s drop him in on the road at Yankee Stadium in a new position(!) after 10 days in AA(!!), there’s a lot to be frustrated about.
And I’m sorry I get frustrated with players on a team who have missed more time due to leaves, suspensions, and the flu, than any other team in any sport in the 30 years I’ve been watching professional sports.
The frustration builds because this team has/had real potential and they’re underperforming to a point beyond what you can blame on bad luck and injuries. These are the teams that drive you crazy, not the crummy ones without talent.
You have veteran guys who for whatever reason are not playing fundamentally sound baseball; Inge’s plate regression, and Pudge’s single digit walks come to mind. Pudge threatens to break the major league record for fewest walks in a season. He’s a Hall of Famer! That frustrating! In the clubhouse, you have a potentially Hall of Fame DH who will make $170 million playing this game who can’t seem to go a month without throwing a tantrum and making everyone look at him. That’s frustrating!
In regards to those who say get a life, well, we all have lives. The great thing about sports is caring/carping/complaining about something that doesn’t matter. Yes, it’s just a game, and this is just a blog forum that we all come to vent, bitch, and even myself, to exultate on occasion.
I’m not sure if exultate is a word, but lets roll with it.
I’m not giving up yet, but I am getting closer to letting empirical evidence get the better of me. This team cannot pitch very well. Is Kenny gonna come back and be the mad-man he was during the playoffs last season? Because, that’s what it’s going to take. That and Bonderman regaining his pre-all-star form.
We can’t hand the ball over to our middle-relievers hands right now, and we don’t have a single starter that is capable of going seven innings to get the ball into the hands of our potentially elite late inning pen. And that potential is dependent on a strong return for Zumaya, which is far from certain.
I’m not giving up yet, but it sure looks bleak. And I think it’s okay to express disappointment. It’s part of being a fan.
And I’m sorry i forgot about Ordonez during my positon by position depression session. He is awesome.
i mentioned Casey because people have defended him before saying as long as he hit .290 and got on at .350 he was fine. And I WAS hoping to engage people on the subject, which i think, is the great thing about blogs and talkin’ baseball. I guess one person’s picking a fight is another person’s looking for a spirited argument on a rainy night after a bad road trip.
The Tigers couldn’t play much worse and the Yanks much better.
They aren’t an easy team to beat in Yankee Stadium.
We have been beating ourselves for awhile.
=1/4wins could have been more.
I still know that we will win.
Over the last month almost all of our team has been in a collective slump. Players bust out of slumps.
Rodney looks much better than before, Verlander looked pretty good even while battling a cold. If Zumaya can come back and be pretty good, and Shef/Bondo can bust thier slumps, we will be right back in it.
Plus, after we finish this Yank/Clev set, 24/31 games will be against teams that are at .500 or worse.
And yes as Octavio Dotel’s biggest fan and a Gagne alcolyte i realize the former is on the DL and the latter is sucking big-time. What do i know? I’m not a GM. Just another guy with an ill-informed opinion. I still say if they would have got someone decent like Dotel for a #4 and a #8 prospect at least fans and players would know they were trying. I know a lot of you think symbolic gestures like that doesn’t matter, but i think they do.
And as wrong as I might have been on Gagne and Dotel, Dave Dombrowski has been as lucky. He’s got the professional break of his career with the Indians simultaneously imploding. It’s only blind chance that we’re not 6-8 games out. If anyone tries to sell that they knew Cleveland was gonna blow chunks, well, that’s not believable.
Maybe we get Zumaya back and we have innings 7 thru 9 slotted and we get on a roll. Anything can happen. But our free pass has to end in this next series.
I might add, that lately it hasn’t looked great.
But, would you rather be a fan of any other team?
Stephen, the royals rejected a better offer from us for Dotel. Gagne said he wouldn’t approve a deal here. Therefore, nothing we could have done would have changed any of that. Lamenting over those two being elsewhere doesn’t make sense to me.
David, your attitude is great, but how long before it’s not considered a “slump”? This has been going on for close to 30 games…that’s almost a fifth of the season.
We pulled out of it last year, but we don’t have the same starting pitching now.
As others have said, Cleveland isn’t all that great, so we still are in the thick of it, but we are way behind Boston and LAA, IMO.
Billfer, I completely disagree that todays outing sealed Lopez’s fate. We’re not cutting Jason Grilli, it’s just not happening. That is 100% clear. Lopez was going back to Toledo no matter what.
Mike R, i’m too tired to get into this, but i meant dealing for any reliever not just Dotel or Gagne. I mention them because they were the two that moved and the two we’ve talked about. I’m guessing there was other relievers in play that didn’t move that the Tigers might have obtained, but Dombrowski didn’t think they were worth the prospects.
If they don’t want to cut Cheeseman fine, but put him on the DL for 15 days with the ubiquitous ’sore arm’ and let him pitch a rehab assignment in AA or AAA or wherever they’re still pitching in early Sept. Maybe if he just took a break and rested he might be adequate.
Yeah. LH specialist Damaso Marte (don’t need another one of those), Solomon Torres (can’t hack it in the NL Central), and then the Nats relievers Cordero and Rauch, both of whom were wayyy too expensive. Jim Bowden wouldn’t take the D-Backs top 3 OF prospect or one of the better pitching prospects from the Mets for either of them (and he shouldn’t, both under control for a while).
And your last sentence says it all. They weren’t worth the prospects, no matter how low ranked the prospects were. Who was out there? Cincy wasn’t shopping David Weathers. The relievers I’ve already mentioned aren’t upgrades and dealing just to make a deal does nothing but make a lateral move. Trades are great and all, but in a terribly bleak market there’s just not much out there because teams weren’t selling.
Mike, i’m gonna have to disagree with you in a cordial manner. Only GM’s know who were available and short of going thru all the rosters I refuse to believe there wasn’t relief upgrades over Durbin, Miner, and Grilli pitching key 7th and 8th innings. They’re all 4-A players. Scott Proctor would have been an upgrade. Extraordinarily, a revitalized Jose Mesa would have been an upgrade. Outbidding for Troy Percival would have been an upgrade. The ceiling was low.
Mike - Yeah, I thought the chances were pretty slim to begin with, but any chance, no matter how slim was extinguished today.
Stephen - Sorry if you were just looking for a discussion, but it didn’t read that way to me. Casey wasn’t even mentioned today despite being one of the few guys who hit the ball hard consistently. As for the merits of Casey, I don’t view a .350 OPS as a black hole in the lineup. At the same time I agree his production from first base is inadequate. In other words, I certainly hope they upgrade (as I did last year) but he hasn’t been a complete waste in the lineup either. Then again my expectations were such that he’s actually exceeded them (mostly by staying healthy).
And on the reliever as symbolic gesture, there very well could be something to that. Or it could be the symbolic gesture was management saying they believed in the guys they had. I don’t really know one way or the other.
Billfer: Agreed on all points. Casey is frustrating, but he’s not the problem. He just made the last out in the supremely frustrating weekend. It’s not always the guiltiest kid who gets the paddle for shooting rubber bands in science class.
Cappellan, De La Cruz, Lopez, Bazardo are all upgrades over Grilli, and yet he remains. I just don’t see a scenario where a trade gets made and Grilli is the odd man out.
Durbin should remain in that he’s done a nice job flexing between the bullpen and the rotation and has provided value to the team.
And you can’t even really suggest Mesa. He did his time here and was awful. If the Tigers cut Grilli and he goes someplace else and succeeds (doubtful on both counts I know) do you lament that he’s not helping the team?
No, i’m not suggesting Mesa. It just hurts that we release a guy who absolutely was the worst, and suddenly he turns out to be sorta ok while our bullpen implodes. Nothing you can do about that.
Miner and Durbin, i think, one of them would be fine as your long man. Or you could keep both of them if they’re your last two guys in the ‘pen pecking order. We’ve just asked them to get out they don’t have the talent to get.
Scott Proctor has a bum arm and will need surgery sometime soon.
A ‘revitalized Jose Mesa’ is also pitching in the weak hitting, mediocre, national league.
I wanted the Tigers to take a chance on Percival, so we agree there.
Also, every disagreement we have is taken as cordial. No need to say so.
I agree that there were upgrades out there, but were they available? Who knows. All reports I’ve read were that no one in Cincy were available, the guys in Pittsburgh definitely weren’t an upgrade or a reliever that we needed, the guys in Houston were staying put after dealing 1 of their big 3 relievers. Aside from that, how many good relievers are out there? I would’ve liked Eulogio de la Cruz to get more time in the pen. He couldn’t have been worse.
And for the record, I don’t want to sound like I’m defending Grilli in any way. I’ve been wanting him released for months.
Optimism fellas. Optimisim.
Beer helps too.