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	<title>Comments on: Game 83:  Indians at Tigers</title>
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	<description>News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball</description>
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		<title>By: Mike R</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58887</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58887</guid>
		<description>I hope Bob S becomes 100% right and I&#039;m dead wrong. If the large contingent of Latino players that are solidified stars can help Capellan get him to drop his walk rate then it&#039;s an OUTSTANDING trade for the Tigers. Chris Cody, chances are, isn&#039;t going on to stud status. Even if he does just become a competent arm he&#039;ll be useful.

And Nate hit the nail on the head on what I was saying. His trend is walking people, which as a reliever, is something you cannot do. The pitchers I brought up I only highlighted to show two routes he can go. Gil Meche had been a league average or worse pitcher, got $11 mil/year and is now putting up fine numbers in KC and all signs point to it not being luck (when you break it down all stat-geek-style). Or, he can go Matt Anderson, who, similiarly to Capellan, had an above average arm and a penchant for walks. And he&#039;s now out of baseball altogether.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope Bob S becomes 100% right and I&#8217;m dead wrong. If the large contingent of Latino players that are solidified stars can help Capellan get him to drop his walk rate then it&#8217;s an OUTSTANDING trade for the Tigers. Chris Cody, chances are, isn&#8217;t going on to stud status. Even if he does just become a competent arm he&#8217;ll be useful.</p>
<p>And Nate hit the nail on the head on what I was saying. His trend is walking people, which as a reliever, is something you cannot do. The pitchers I brought up I only highlighted to show two routes he can go. Gil Meche had been a league average or worse pitcher, got $11 mil/year and is now putting up fine numbers in KC and all signs point to it not being luck (when you break it down all stat-geek-style). Or, he can go Matt Anderson, who, similiarly to Capellan, had an above average arm and a penchant for walks. And he&#8217;s now out of baseball altogether.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58841</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58841</guid>
		<description>Adam: No one has advocated a position based on a single comparandum.  Mike R. is saying that pitchers, like Capellan, who have high walk rates throughout their career, have difficulty reaching their arm&#039;s full potential.  He is talking about trends, not single examples.  

Of course, saying that Verlander will end up injured because Fidrych got hurt is absurd; however, it&#039;s not ridiculous to express concern about his arm because many pitchers who have had such high workloads when they&#039;re young have suffered from arm troubles.  Similarly, Capellan could end up mastering the strike zone and have a good career; or like &lt;i&gt;countless&lt;/i&gt; pitchers he could continue having high walk rates and never reach the full potential of his stuff.  The many names that populate the latter list rightly concern Mike R.  

Yes, it would be ridiculous to assume that any single pitcher will turn out exactly like any other single pitcher.  But it&#039;s equally ridiculous to throw your hands up in the air and say that each pitcher has an equal chance to turn into a success or a failure.  With enough data, trends are useful tools for analysis, and just because a pitcher bucks a trend -- as both Verlander and Capellan hopefully will do -- doesn&#039;t mean that the trend as a whole is invalid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam: No one has advocated a position based on a single comparandum.  Mike R. is saying that pitchers, like Capellan, who have high walk rates throughout their career, have difficulty reaching their arm&#8217;s full potential.  He is talking about trends, not single examples.  </p>
<p>Of course, saying that Verlander will end up injured because Fidrych got hurt is absurd; however, it&#8217;s not ridiculous to express concern about his arm because many pitchers who have had such high workloads when they&#8217;re young have suffered from arm troubles.  Similarly, Capellan could end up mastering the strike zone and have a good career; or like <i>countless</i> pitchers he could continue having high walk rates and never reach the full potential of his stuff.  The many names that populate the latter list rightly concern Mike R.  </p>
<p>Yes, it would be ridiculous to assume that any single pitcher will turn out exactly like any other single pitcher.  But it&#8217;s equally ridiculous to throw your hands up in the air and say that each pitcher has an equal chance to turn into a success or a failure.  With enough data, trends are useful tools for analysis, and just because a pitcher bucks a trend &#8212; as both Verlander and Capellan hopefully will do &#8212; doesn&#8217;t mean that the trend as a whole is invalid.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58834</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 03:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58834</guid>
		<description>Each pitcher is his own set of circumstances. It&#039;s ridiculous to say one pitcher is going to perform according to how other pitchers have performed.

&quot;Verlander = Mark Fidrych and that means he&#039;s going to burn out.&quot;

Come on. Just watch and see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Each pitcher is his own set of circumstances. It&#8217;s ridiculous to say one pitcher is going to perform according to how other pitchers have performed.</p>
<p>&#8220;Verlander = Mark Fidrych and that means he&#8217;s going to burn out.&#8221;</p>
<p>Come on. Just watch and see.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58833</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58833</guid>
		<description>*** While late bloomers are possible (see: possibly Gil Meche), I’m still highly skeptical/a cynic about his abilities to fulfill his promise he showed in the Braves minor league ranks ***

The Tigers don&#039;t need him to be another Gil Meche.  They just need a competent arm in the bullpen.  If he does that, then this was a great trade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*** While late bloomers are possible (see: possibly Gil Meche), I’m still highly skeptical/a cynic about his abilities to fulfill his promise he showed in the Braves minor league ranks ***</p>
<p>The Tigers don&#8217;t need him to be another Gil Meche.  They just need a competent arm in the bullpen.  If he does that, then this was a great trade.</p>
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		<title>By: T Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58831</link>
		<dc:creator>T Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 00:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58831</guid>
		<description>I have no empircal evidence to support this, just a hunch... I think the Tiger&#039;s clubhouse is gonna do wonders for this kid.  I&#039;m the first to tend to agree with Mike R. on a lot of his points...  but I just sense that Capellan is going to thrive in the conditions inherent to the Tiger&#039;s organization, including all the points Bob S made.  Call it wishful thinking, maybe.   I just have a good feeling about him stepping up to the next level at a Tiger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no empircal evidence to support this, just a hunch&#8230; I think the Tiger&#8217;s clubhouse is gonna do wonders for this kid.  I&#8217;m the first to tend to agree with Mike R. on a lot of his points&#8230;  but I just sense that Capellan is going to thrive in the conditions inherent to the Tiger&#8217;s organization, including all the points Bob S made.  Call it wishful thinking, maybe.   I just have a good feeling about him stepping up to the next level at a Tiger.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob S.</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58830</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 23:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58830</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s possible that the Tigers sizable contingent of Latin American players,particularly star quality players with considerable major league experience,might provide mentoring to a young guy like Capellan who may be having trouble getting his head to catch up to his obvious physical talent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s possible that the Tigers sizable contingent of Latin American players,particularly star quality players with considerable major league experience,might provide mentoring to a young guy like Capellan who may be having trouble getting his head to catch up to his obvious physical talent.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike R</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58829</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58829</guid>
		<description>While late bloomers are possible (see: possibly Gil Meche), I&#039;m still highly skeptical/a cynic about his abilities to fulfill his promise he showed in the Braves minor league ranks.

Also, Matt Anderson had a good arm, too. A good arm&#039;s nothing if Capellan can&#039;t lower his walks, increase his K&#039;s with his above average stuff (which he definitely does have) and get tougher mentally. He demanded a trade when he didn&#039;t make the Brewers bullpen out of Spring Training. If he can put it together in Detroit, I&#039;ll be ecstatic, but I see the chances of him fulfilling his potential at about 70/30 on him being an average pitcher that has the &quot;potential&quot; to be more. So much more.

Also, his rise in prospect rankings probably have something to do with not making any extended stays in High-A, Double-A, or Triple-A in 2004 (his best year, by far, in pro ball). Similiar to what Matt Garza did last year.

Delving more into it, maybe his troubles are because he was a starter throughout his minor league career and then Milwaukee moved him to the bullpen regularly when he was in Triple-A Nashville in 2005. He&#039;s still young, obviously, with a great arsenal, he might be better suited to be in the rotation to be successful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While late bloomers are possible (see: possibly Gil Meche), I&#8217;m still highly skeptical/a cynic about his abilities to fulfill his promise he showed in the Braves minor league ranks.</p>
<p>Also, Matt Anderson had a good arm, too. A good arm&#8217;s nothing if Capellan can&#8217;t lower his walks, increase his K&#8217;s with his above average stuff (which he definitely does have) and get tougher mentally. He demanded a trade when he didn&#8217;t make the Brewers bullpen out of Spring Training. If he can put it together in Detroit, I&#8217;ll be ecstatic, but I see the chances of him fulfilling his potential at about 70/30 on him being an average pitcher that has the &#8220;potential&#8221; to be more. So much more.</p>
<p>Also, his rise in prospect rankings probably have something to do with not making any extended stays in High-A, Double-A, or Triple-A in 2004 (his best year, by far, in pro ball). Similiar to what Matt Garza did last year.</p>
<p>Delving more into it, maybe his troubles are because he was a starter throughout his minor league career and then Milwaukee moved him to the bullpen regularly when he was in Triple-A Nashville in 2005. He&#8217;s still young, obviously, with a great arsenal, he might be better suited to be in the rotation to be successful.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58828</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58828</guid>
		<description>Also, nice win today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, nice win today.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58827</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58827</guid>
		<description>The fact that Capellan was rated so highly means that a lot of people think he had potential.  It&#039;s fair to debate whether or not those people were right, obviously, but for the most part DD and his scouts have an eye for the type of power pitching around which they want to build.  So far Capellan has been good in very limited duty, and career splits notwithstanding, he has a good arm.  It&#039;s entirely possible that he may finally begin to realize the potential many thought he had, and his earlier stints in the big leagues are not good indicators of his talent.

At least, I hope that&#039;s the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that Capellan was rated so highly means that a lot of people think he had potential.  It&#8217;s fair to debate whether or not those people were right, obviously, but for the most part DD and his scouts have an eye for the type of power pitching around which they want to build.  So far Capellan has been good in very limited duty, and career splits notwithstanding, he has a good arm.  It&#8217;s entirely possible that he may finally begin to realize the potential many thought he had, and his earlier stints in the big leagues are not good indicators of his talent.</p>
<p>At least, I hope that&#8217;s the case.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58826</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58826</guid>
		<description>I guess that depends on what you see as his track record.  On the one hand, his ERA last year was pretty much league average (ERA+ of 102), and his peripherals are neither terrible nor awesome (7.3 K/9; 3.9 BB/9).  

But last year, if you look at him in terms of Win Expectancy, he was an above average pitcher, being good enough for 24th in the NL in Win Expectancy above Replacement, and 45th in MLB as a whole.  If he were on the Tigers last year, he would have been the fourth best reliever -- at least as defined by these terms -- on the team, behind Zumaya, Jones, and Rodney.  If he can regress to that performance -- good enough to be the fourth best reliever on the 2006 Tigers -- I&#039;ll be pretty happy with him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess that depends on what you see as his track record.  On the one hand, his ERA last year was pretty much league average (ERA+ of 102), and his peripherals are neither terrible nor awesome (7.3 K/9; 3.9 BB/9).  </p>
<p>But last year, if you look at him in terms of Win Expectancy, he was an above average pitcher, being good enough for 24th in the NL in Win Expectancy above Replacement, and 45th in MLB as a whole.  If he were on the Tigers last year, he would have been the fourth best reliever &#8212; at least as defined by these terms &#8212; on the team, behind Zumaya, Jones, and Rodney.  If he can regress to that performance &#8212; good enough to be the fourth best reliever on the 2006 Tigers &#8212; I&#8217;ll be pretty happy with him.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike R</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58825</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58825</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still siding on Capellan&#039;s career trends to pop up. Like Tim Byrdak, he&#039;s been very good to start. If he&#039;s still this good entering August, I&#039;d be surprised.

And it&#039;s always the key word with him; &quot;potential&quot;. He was the 25th best prospect in baseball in 2005 (from Baseball America) and then fell off the map. He&#039;s a great arm and a boatload of potential, but I think he&#039;s just that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still siding on Capellan&#8217;s career trends to pop up. Like Tim Byrdak, he&#8217;s been very good to start. If he&#8217;s still this good entering August, I&#8217;d be surprised.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s always the key word with him; &#8220;potential&#8221;. He was the 25th best prospect in baseball in 2005 (from Baseball America) and then fell off the map. He&#8217;s a great arm and a boatload of potential, but I think he&#8217;s just that.</p>
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		<title>By: T Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58824</link>
		<dc:creator>T Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58824</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s exactly the problem with Grilli... He&#039;s inconsistant.  He&#039;s spotty at best.  One outing he&#039;s very good (or great), the next outing, he&#039;s horrendous.  One inning he&#039;s dominating, the next inning he can&#039;t find the stike zone.  One outing he&#039;s lights out, the next he&#039;s hosting batting practice.

He&#039;s a very frustrating pitcher to watch.

On Capellan:

I like what I see so far.  Even taking the loss on Friday (and giving up the HR) -- he looked good/great.  Certainly better than what I&#039;ve seen thus far from the bullpen.  I think he&#039;s got potential to be a great setup guy or middle relief.  From what I hear, he&#039;s kinda a mental case; if Hernandez can work with him and cultivate his confidence, we may have got a steel from the Brewers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s exactly the problem with Grilli&#8230; He&#8217;s inconsistant.  He&#8217;s spotty at best.  One outing he&#8217;s very good (or great), the next outing, he&#8217;s horrendous.  One inning he&#8217;s dominating, the next inning he can&#8217;t find the stike zone.  One outing he&#8217;s lights out, the next he&#8217;s hosting batting practice.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s a very frustrating pitcher to watch.</p>
<p>On Capellan:</p>
<p>I like what I see so far.  Even taking the loss on Friday (and giving up the HR) &#8212; he looked good/great.  Certainly better than what I&#8217;ve seen thus far from the bullpen.  I think he&#8217;s got potential to be a great setup guy or middle relief.  From what I hear, he&#8217;s kinda a mental case; if Hernandez can work with him and cultivate his confidence, we may have got a steel from the Brewers</p>
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		<title>By: Walewander</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58823</link>
		<dc:creator>Walewander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58823</guid>
		<description>I think we all needed that.

And I think Capellan looks very good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we all needed that.</p>
<p>And I think Capellan looks very good.</p>
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		<title>By: colin</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58822</link>
		<dc:creator>colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58822</guid>
		<description>Nate: Clay Davenport&#039;s system &quot;depends on the basic defensive statistics kept by organized baseball&quot;.  So I think it would be susceptible to scoring errors, such as consistently calling a passed ball a WP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate: Clay Davenport&#8217;s system &#8220;depends on the basic defensive statistics kept by organized baseball&#8221;.  So I think it would be susceptible to scoring errors, such as consistently calling a passed ball a WP.</p>
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		<title>By: Vince in MN</title>
		<link>http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58821</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince in MN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/07/game-83-indians-at-tigers/#comment-58821</guid>
		<description>For those who have seen Capellan pitch, what do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those who have seen Capellan pitch, what do you think?</p>
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