Comments on: Rotation straightened out – Andrew Miller stays

By: Gorilla Crouch » Touring the Detroit Sports Scene

Gorilla Crouch » Touring the Detroit Sports Scene — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:31:10 +0000

[...] Scott over at Quo Vadimus pointed me to this article over at the Detroit Tigers Weblog that is along the lines of what I had to say regarding Andrew Miller. I can’t help thinking back to last year when we kept hearing about how Justin Verlander had such a dramatic increase in innings. And remember how he had ot miss starts and he admitted to being fatigued? Well Verlander had those issues after a full season of [minor league] professional ball. Miller doesn’t even have that. … …I’d like to see Miller continue to work on his change-up in the minors, where he can work on it. Jeremy bonderman was rushed to the big leagues because there was no one else, and every year we hear how he needs to work on his change-up. Now in his 4th year he finally appears to have it. Why not give Miller the time to work on it now so he can be a dominant force next year? [...]

By: billfer

billfer — Sun, 24 Jun 2007 12:16:20 +0000

I’m not worried about him struggling. I think he’ll do fine and give better innings than Mike Maroth did. So I get that he gives the best chance to win.

But the Tigers are a good team with depth. Developing players is a luxury they do have more than bad teams. They don’t need to rush players to create excitement and sell tickets. They don’t need to rush players because there simply is no one else. That was 2003.

Again, I’m fine with him getting a taste and filling in when the team was short on arms. We saw how good he is with only 2 pitches, and we also saw that he has no confidence in his 3rd pitch and it still needs refinement so he can be the dominant force that Verlander is.

I won’t get into whether or not it makes sense to use inning limits or pitch counts. There isn’t conclusive evidence either way and so it comes down to anecdotal stories of how Nolan Ryan and others can throw over 300 innings and how Dusty Baker did Kerry Wood and Mark Prior no favors. Me, I’ll err on the side of caution.

By: Stephen

Stephen — Sun, 24 Jun 2007 06:53:03 +0000

Well, i think everyone is overthinking this and still approach the Tigers like they’re a college program who should be redshirting guys.

Is Miller one of the Tigers’ ten best pitchers? Yes. Will he get regular work? Yes. Will they send him down if he struggles? Yes.

This is a team sport about winning championships. I’ll say this again: I-Rod’s caught nearly 2000 games, Rogers is 42, Sheffield is 38, Maggs has surgically repaired knees. The window is now.

Miller will sink or swim at this level, that’s why they gave him a big bonus. ‘Developing’ players slowly is the one luxury given to sucky teams. We’ve lost that, but I think we’d all agree it’s been worth it.

By: Mike R

Mike R — Sun, 24 Jun 2007 06:04:46 +0000

I get that he can learn from guys like Rogers, Bonderman, and Verlander, but I’d like for Miller to have a stable of pitchers resembling Verlander more then just Bonderman. It’s taken 5 years for Bondo to be comfortable with a change-up and be able to use it effectively 5 times an outing. Verlander can command all 3 pitches and I’d prefer that Miller get more time in the minors to season his change up. Is he good enough with those two pitches to be a No. 4-5 starter right now? Yes.
Could he be DOMINANT when/if he masters a change-up/becomes more comfortable with the change in the minors over the rest of this year? Absolutely.

By: JML

JML — Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:43:48 +0000

Bilfer is right on. Miller is still gaining his form and learning his pitches. Give the kid a season in the minors, that’s why we have them. I like Durbin back in the bullpen, too. It needs that kind of reinforcement.

By: Around the Bases: Rotation and Pitching Finally Rounding Out? « Detroit Sports Unleashed

Sat, 23 Jun 2007 19:39:14 +0000

[...] For the time being, Andrew Miller will remain in the starting rotation rather than returning to the Minors to hone his changeup. When Nate Robertson returns next week, Chad Durbin will move into the bullpen. Nate had a great rehab start the other day, throwing six hitless innings for Erie. [...]

By: KS

KS — Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:34:46 +0000

I like the idea of Durbin in the bullpen as he has the ability to miss bats a bit more often than many of our relievers. As Ledezma and Maroth go, they were a nice luxury to have, but a few had to go down to the minors to make room for Robertson and Rogers, obviously it seemed Miller would have made a nice option, and when one of the starters inevitably got hurt or struggled he would have been a nice jolt to bring into the rotation. The Tigers for once have been able to stockpile pitching, to bad baseball rules preclude a team from keeping them all like in the old days. But they seemed to have set there sights on a rotation built around Verlander, Bonderman, Miller, and Rogers (or another free agent when Rogers moves on). That’s a nice start to having a competitive team far into the future.

By: Joey C.

Joey C. — Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:48:42 +0000

I agree with Chris Y that the orthodoxy that says you protect an arm by limiting innings pitched (or pitches for that matter) is not demonstrably accurate. Although Spahn may not be the most reliable source because he was a complete freak of nature and his opinion was no doubt largely informed by his personal experience.

I also agree that Miller could probably use more seasoning in the minors before being brought up full-time.

It’s a complicated issue to look at and their are pluses and minuses to keeping him on the big league club to be sure.

Selfishly, I really enjoy watching him pitch, so I’m glad he’s sticking around.

By: Stephen

Stephen — Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:40:08 +0000

I’m not sure what you mean by messing with what worked last year. The bullpen, statistically, is one of the worst in the majors. For every strong outing Ledezma has had, he’s had an equally mind-boggling meltdown. Maroth is a good guy, but was perhaps the 7th best starter on the team and with his arm problems wasn’t a candidate for bullpen conversion. Maybe he’ll rebound after another year, but you just can’t carry him without a role. So, I don’t have a problem with the subtractions, I just want there also to be additions.

By: Mike F

Mike F — Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:39:20 +0000

Miller has 89 inning pitched already. Assuming a limit of 170 inning as a limit and 6 innings per start, that gives him another 14 starts. So he would get shut down in about mid-September (much like Bondo in ‘03) if they don’t skip a couple starts.

By: Ed in OR

Ed in OR — Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:42:15 +0000

I too am sorry to see Ledezma go, especially after last night when he fanned three in a row, but if Miller has a better potential then I guess this trade is worth it. My main concern this entire season has been that the front office has been messing with what worked last year (or at least most of it). The pitching has been great and the entire team seems to be finally coming together, but I question changing any of the pitchers. With established pitchers like Maroth being traded in the hope of getting arms and players that can be developed into stronger players I see the future logic of making sure the team is good for years to come. But, I don’t understand why the Tigs wouldn’t try building the values of Maroth and Ledezma value a bit more over the course of this year to seal even better deals.

By: Kurt

Kurt — Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:14:30 +0000

Cam — They’re unloading ineffective pitchers they had no hope of being able to keep in the system and the inability to carry on the team.

All — I am as concerned as the next guy over Miller’s growth, but I do believe as long as they watch his arm, he’s better off in Detroit than Erie. Look at his teachers up there. A major league pitching coach, Kenny Rogers with a wealth of knowledge that’s probably better than any pitching coach, Verlander and Bonderman helping him learn how to be a young star and adjust to the new experiences, Robertson being (sort of) a power lefty… it’s just a really supportive environment that I think he couldnt have gotten in Erie. And he’s contributing every five days or, in an instant, he’d be back in Double-A. I’m OK with the move. I’m sure they have contingency plans.

By: ron

ron — Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:01:11 +0000

Bilfer, you are a worry wart. Miller needs to be in this environment now.They’ll keep an eye on him. Being under fire now will make it that much easier later.

By: Ryan S

Ryan S — Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:20:02 +0000

I’m on Bilfer’s side of this argument. Durbin’s been doing a fine job in the number 5 starter slot. Miller’s been good, but at the major league level he’s just going to have to go with what he’s got. He won’t be working on new pitches to major league hitters. People are talking about how Bonderman toughed it out through his rookie season. But let’s not forget, he posted a 5+ ERA that year.

I’d rather see Miller sent down and kept on a strict innings limit. Then he could be called back up in September and be a potential add to the playoff roster (and still have some gas left in the tank).

By: Cameron in Singapore

Cameron in Singapore — Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:52:19 +0000

Why have the Tigers been in such a rush to unload pitchers? Yes, with everyone coming back we have a surplus of starters, but isn’t that an okay problem? Why did we make two trades this week that really don’t bring any immediate help to the team? If we get a couple of more injuries, what will we do then? Then we’ll need more starting pitchers.