Comments on: Game 50: Tigers at Rays http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Sat, 22 Nov 2008 03:32:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Bob S. http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56027 Bob S. Tue, 29 May 2007 21:13:08 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56027 Yeah,Dave,I've also been wondering how long before Steinbrenner freaks out and blows up the Yankees.They've let that team get too old. There's nothing wrong with second guessing Leyland-he's not that great a tactician and as a judge of talent(Mesa,Perez),he's stuck in 1996.I think his primary value is probably as a clubhouse guy who was able to command the respect that Trammell couldn't-he added badly needed stability and allowed a pretty good collection of players to focus on the game.He lucked into a situation where several of his young pitchers matured,another was as good as any rookie pitcher since Gooden,and their prize free agent pitched better than almost anyone expected.On top of that,the White Sox(led by the freak show that's Ozzie Guillen)stumbled. Yeah,Dave,I’ve also been wondering how long before Steinbrenner freaks out and blows up the Yankees.They’ve let that team get too old.
There’s nothing wrong with second guessing Leyland-he’s not that great a tactician and as a judge of talent(Mesa,Perez),he’s stuck in 1996.I think his primary value is probably as a clubhouse guy who was able to command the respect that Trammell couldn’t-he added badly needed stability and allowed a pretty good collection of players to focus on the game.He lucked into a situation where several of his young pitchers matured,another was as good as any rookie pitcher since Gooden,and their prize free agent pitched better than almost anyone expected.On top of that,the White Sox(led by the freak show that’s Ozzie Guillen)stumbled.

]]> By: Mike R http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56026 Mike R Tue, 29 May 2007 21:04:18 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56026 Well tracking clemens is over the top, but it's what ESPN must show since that's what rates. Yankees draw and that's a fact. I just don't ever get caught up in the hoopla of it all. That said, I just told my friend yesterday that the Yanks are on the cusp of a blow-up-the-team-and-rebuild mode. I don't know how that'll sit with Yankee fans, but that farm system is starting to be rebuilt and with their collective age, like you mentioned, coupled with possibly being out of the race at the deadline, they may be sellers. And for any other ball club, that'd be a disappointment but not a catastrophe. However, in NY, it'll be catastrophic and I feel bad because Cashman, yes, made a lot of bad deals but he's trying to right the ship by rebuilding the system in a place where rebuilding isn't accepted. And it'll probably cost him his job. Well tracking clemens is over the top, but it’s what ESPN must show since that’s what rates. Yankees draw and that’s a fact. I just don’t ever get caught up in the hoopla of it all.

That said, I just told my friend yesterday that the Yanks are on the cusp of a blow-up-the-team-and-rebuild mode. I don’t know how that’ll sit with Yankee fans, but that farm system is starting to be rebuilt and with their collective age, like you mentioned, coupled with possibly being out of the race at the deadline, they may be sellers. And for any other ball club, that’d be a disappointment but not a catastrophe. However, in NY, it’ll be catastrophic and I feel bad because Cashman, yes, made a lot of bad deals but he’s trying to right the ship by rebuilding the system in a place where rebuilding isn’t accepted. And it’ll probably cost him his job.

]]> By: Dave Wagner http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56025 Dave Wagner Tue, 29 May 2007 17:56:50 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56025 It's unprecedented: for the first time this century, I'm almost nearly sort of bordering on ruling the Yankees out of the playoffs. They might have to build a whole new nucleus for this team (aside from Jeter), because I don't see much of a future for the one they've been working with in the Torre Era. It’s unprecedented: for the first time this century, I’m almost nearly sort of bordering on ruling the Yankees out of the playoffs. They might have to build a whole new nucleus for this team (aside from Jeter), because I don’t see much of a future for the one they’ve been working with in the Torre Era.

]]> By: Chris Y. http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56021 Chris Y. Tue, 29 May 2007 14:02:26 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56021 Eh, Clemens and his play-half-a-season approach might be enough for the Yanks, but I think it took a toll on his production a bit last year. He averaged less than 6 innings per start, which is almost a full 2/3 inning shorter than the previous 4 when he played full-time. The Yanks are old. For instance, Mussina has an ERA near 6 and hasn't pitched 200 innings since 2003. And while its critical to get the staff in sync with the bats, its also important to stay healthy. We are having our troubles and we aren't nearly as long in the tooth. If you count Wang as their #1, the Yanks 2-4 starters average out at 40 yrs old .. then you have a rookie. Age (real and drug-assisted) isn't exactly on the position-players side for the Yanks either (see Damon, Giambi, Abreu, etc.). They will always get tons of press because of their history and their current soap-opera/Trumpian lifestyle in the largest media market, and its expected. However, tracking every push-up Roger does or how many changeups he threw to a lineup of 20 year-olds is a little over the top. Eh, Clemens and his play-half-a-season approach might be enough for the Yanks, but I think it took a toll on his production a bit last year. He averaged less than 6 innings per start, which is almost a full 2/3 inning shorter than the previous 4 when he played full-time.

The Yanks are old. For instance, Mussina has an ERA near 6 and hasn’t pitched 200 innings since 2003. And while its critical to get the staff in sync with the bats, its also important to stay healthy. We are having our troubles and we aren’t nearly as long in the tooth. If you count Wang as their #1, the Yanks 2-4 starters average out at 40 yrs old .. then you have a rookie. Age (real and drug-assisted) isn’t exactly on the position-players side for the Yanks either (see Damon, Giambi, Abreu, etc.).

They will always get tons of press because of their history and their current soap-opera/Trumpian lifestyle in the largest media market, and its expected. However, tracking every push-up Roger does or how many changeups he threw to a lineup of 20 year-olds is a little over the top.

]]> By: Mike R http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56017 Mike R Tue, 29 May 2007 06:44:47 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56017 Chris Y: I understand why there's the hub-bub around the Yanks/Clemens; the Yankees rate on TV. So topics about them get viewers everywhere. I don't think clemens is the savior. What the savior for them is when their offense comes around and they get their league average pitching -- and both will happen. When that does occur, they're good enough to win 90+ games even with the terrible start. This is the same team from last year that got better by adding Andy Pettitte who can actually go deep into games, unlike Jaret Wright. They just pitch and don't hit, or hit and don't pitch. When it all comes together everything will be right. I was trying to say this earlier but DTW wasn't responding or something so I just left and went out with some buddies: "Stephen just summed it up. This is baseball at its finest and when your team is good -- which we are -- one tends to overreact as well as pick apart whatever holes our team has. I'd gladly take 2nd guessing Jim Leyland, lamenting our bullpen injuries, hating Jose Mesa and wondering who Dave Dombrowski will make a deal for in 2 months over being 15 games out and not being able to turn off any Tigers game because I'm a baseball fan and suffering through a 119 loss season. Though, until last year, the greatest feeling I had watching the Tigers was their rally to stave off the 120 or MLB Record 121 loss season." Chris Y: I understand why there’s the hub-bub around the Yanks/Clemens; the Yankees rate on TV. So topics about them get viewers everywhere. I don’t think clemens is the savior. What the savior for them is when their offense comes around and they get their league average pitching — and both will happen. When that does occur, they’re good enough to win 90+ games even with the terrible start. This is the same team from last year that got better by adding Andy Pettitte who can actually go deep into games, unlike Jaret Wright. They just pitch and don’t hit, or hit and don’t pitch. When it all comes together everything will be right.

I was trying to say this earlier but DTW wasn’t responding or something so I just left and went out with some buddies:

“Stephen just summed it up. This is baseball at its finest and when your team is good — which we are — one tends to overreact as well as pick apart whatever holes our team has. I’d gladly take 2nd guessing Jim Leyland, lamenting our bullpen injuries, hating Jose Mesa and wondering who Dave Dombrowski will make a deal for in 2 months over being 15 games out and not being able to turn off any Tigers game because I’m a baseball fan and suffering through a 119 loss season. Though, until last year, the greatest feeling I had watching the Tigers was their rally to stave off the 120 or MLB Record 121 loss season.”

]]> By: ron http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56015 ron Tue, 29 May 2007 04:03:36 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56015 I live in NYC and it's going to be mass suicide off the Triborough bridge any day now. GO TIGERS!! I live in NYC and it’s going to be mass suicide off the Triborough bridge any day now. GO TIGERS!!

]]> By: Chris Y. http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56014 Chris Y. Tue, 29 May 2007 03:33:03 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56014 Hey, as long as we are on the therapeutic Yankee bashing: how about all the hub-bub for Clemens return, like he's some sort of Superman. Even if they win 15 of his maybe 20-odd starts, they still are only on pace for 85 wins. I don't know anyone who thinks that's enough to take the East OR the AL wild-card, no matter how much intra-division bashing goes on in the Central. Even worse, winning 2/3 of Clemens starts might be a stretch. One pitcher is not a team. Esp. if he can only physically take 5 inn./game. Hey, as long as we are on the therapeutic Yankee bashing: how about all the hub-bub for Clemens return, like he’s some sort of Superman. Even if they win 15 of his maybe 20-odd starts, they still are only on pace for 85 wins. I don’t know anyone who thinks that’s enough to take the East OR the AL wild-card, no matter how much intra-division bashing goes on in the Central.

Even worse, winning 2/3 of Clemens starts might be a stretch.

One pitcher is not a team. Esp. if he can only physically take 5 inn./game.

]]> By: Kathy http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56013 Kathy Tue, 29 May 2007 03:30:34 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56013 Thank you, Stephen. I used to be a Court TV junkie. Thank you, Stephen. I used to be a Court TV junkie.

]]> By: Kevin in Austin http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56012 Kevin in Austin Tue, 29 May 2007 03:27:22 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56012 Just read all the posts, great chatter tonight. Even though I was out all night, I was hanging on every pitch (via cell phone updates). Last summer was fantastic, even when we lost, b/c of the ups and downs. We're fortunate to be in this situation. I can't wait for the game tomorrow. Just read all the posts, great chatter tonight. Even though I was out all night, I was hanging on every pitch (via cell phone updates). Last summer was fantastic, even when we lost, b/c of the ups and downs. We’re fortunate to be in this situation. I can’t wait for the game tomorrow.

]]> By: Stephen http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56011 Stephen Tue, 29 May 2007 03:20:57 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/05/game-50-tigers-at-rays/#comment-56011 Kathy, your unbridled optimism is wonderful. If I ever need a defense lawyer I'm calling you. Kathy, your unbridled optimism is wonderful. If I ever need a defense lawyer I’m calling you.

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