Comments on: Inge’s Struggles http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:59:57 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Greg http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52826 Greg Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:47:13 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52826 Fair enough. I didn't realize contact rates had such low variance. Just keeping you on your toes. Fair enough. I didn’t realize contact rates had such low variance. Just keeping you on your toes.

]]> By: billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52810 billfer Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:04:53 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52810 Greg - It actually is if you look at the range of normal contact rates. The league average is 80%, and a super contact guy like Polanco is at 91%. Granderson, who had contact issues last year was at 71% for the year which is pretty close to the floor. A move of 6% points across a range that is only 20-25 is pretty significant. Now you do raise the point of sample size which is pretty much a given only 6 games in. But I'm not looking to predict what is going to happen, just describing what has happened during the slump and highlighting that everything may not be right with his swing. Greg –

It actually is if you look at the range of normal contact rates. The league average is 80%, and a super contact guy like Polanco is at 91%. Granderson, who had contact issues last year was at 71% for the year which is pretty close to the floor. A move of 6% points across a range that is only 20-25 is pretty significant.

Now you do raise the point of sample size which is pretty much a given only 6 games in. But I’m not looking to predict what is going to happen, just describing what has happened during the slump and highlighting that everything may not be right with his swing.

]]> By: Stolen Thunder « Baseball By Paul http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52808 Stolen Thunder « Baseball By Paul Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:55:13 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52808 [...] Posted by pauls on April 10th, 2007 Well, I had been absent for a few days and so I guess that’s what I get for dropping the ball. I was going to talk a bit about Brandon Inge and his early season woes, but Billfer beat me to the punch yesterday! While Inge isn’t concerned and thinks he’s really close, Billfer is a tad less optimistic. I tend fall somewhere in between the two. Billfer points to Inge’s contact rate being 6% off of his career rate as a negative whereas I see that as reason to easy up on the panic button. Inge thinks he is taking perfect swings, but dealing with a bit of bad luck. Could it be that perhaps, as Billfer says, Inge’s newfound level of patience has been a detriment? I would say no. Frankly, it is just too early to make sweeping judgments one way or the other. I am impressed with the effort by Billfer as always, though. I’ll go ahead with my first in-season prediction and say that Inge gets his first hit tonight against Jaret Wright, who enters the game with a 15.43 ERA. [...] [...] Posted by pauls on April 10th, 2007 Well, I had been absent for a few days and so I guess that’s what I get for dropping the ball. I was going to talk a bit about Brandon Inge and his early season woes, but Billfer beat me to the punch yesterday! While Inge isn’t concerned and thinks he’s really close, Billfer is a tad less optimistic. I tend fall somewhere in between the two. Billfer points to Inge’s contact rate being 6% off of his career rate as a negative whereas I see that as reason to easy up on the panic button. Inge thinks he is taking perfect swings, but dealing with a bit of bad luck. Could it be that perhaps, as Billfer says, Inge’s newfound level of patience has been a detriment? I would say no. Frankly, it is just too early to make sweeping judgments one way or the other. I am impressed with the effort by Billfer as always, though. I’ll go ahead with my first in-season prediction and say that Inge gets his first hit tonight against Jaret Wright, who enters the game with a 15.43 ERA. [...]

]]> By: Kurt http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52804 Kurt Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:09:29 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52804 EZ, You can use the hit chart at MLB.com, for one. The problem with it is that it goes by ballpark, not the entire season. But it can begin to help you look around. http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?playerID=276346&statType=1 EZ,

You can use the hit chart at MLB.com, for one. The problem with it is that it goes by ballpark, not the entire season. But it can begin to help you look around.

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/.....statType=1

]]> By: Bunt Singles: April 11 edition » Mack Avenue Tigers : A Detroit Tigers Blog http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52802 Bunt Singles: April 11 edition » Mack Avenue Tigers : A Detroit Tigers Blog Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:09:52 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52802 [...] Brandon Inge: YEEESSSH! Bilfer looks at an unlikely cause for his problems. [...] [...] Brandon Inge: YEEESSSH! Bilfer looks at an unlikely cause for his problems. [...]

]]> By: Greg http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52801 Greg Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:52:28 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52801 Is 71% really "well below" the 77% career contact rate, especially given the small sample size? Is 71% really “well below” the 77% career contact rate, especially given the small sample size?

]]> By: EZ http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52798 EZ Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:32:44 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52798 Bilfer, Now I am curious... any chance you have a breakdown of hits for Inge in '04 when he hit .287? Seems like he was using more of the field then... Bilfer,

Now I am curious… any chance you have a breakdown of hits for Inge in ‘04 when he hit .287? Seems like he was using more of the field then…

]]> By: Kyle J http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52797 Kyle J Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:48:33 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52797 This all points toward a fundamental paradox: We all want the Tigers to (1) be more patient at the plate and (2) strike out less. Unfortunately, those two things are going to tend to work against one another. Asking hitters to do both of those things at the same time means asking them to get fundamentally better at recognizing hittable and unhittable pitches--a skill that I don't think can be significantly improved once a baseline level of ability has been established. I love Inge; he single-handedly symbolizes the resurgence of the Tigers franchise. But he is what he is. He's either a .250/25 HR hitter or a .280/12 HR hitter (and a real asset in the field). Here's hoping he can get back to one of those levels sooner, rather than later. This all points toward a fundamental paradox: We all want the Tigers to (1) be more patient at the plate and (2) strike out less. Unfortunately, those two things are going to tend to work against one another. Asking hitters to do both of those things at the same time means asking them to get fundamentally better at recognizing hittable and unhittable pitches–a skill that I don’t think can be significantly improved once a baseline level of ability has been established.

I love Inge; he single-handedly symbolizes the resurgence of the Tigers franchise. But he is what he is. He’s either a .250/25 HR hitter or a .280/12 HR hitter (and a real asset in the field). Here’s hoping he can get back to one of those levels sooner, rather than later.

]]> By: EZ http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52796 EZ Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:20:54 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52796 Bilfer, Very nice research. I think there is a big grain of truth in Inge's being too patient. He is letting hittable pitches cruise "right down Broadway" early in the count. I also agree with Rings. Inge needs to get off of the power swing stroke and just make contact. He is way too pull and power happy. He needs to drive the balls pitched on the outer half of the plate to right and right center. He stroked a lot of balls to right center well the year he managed to hit .287. Though much of that average came from pitchers challanging what had been a .202 career hitter at the time. By waiting and driving pitches to right he will stand a better chance of making contact on off speed pitches where he is fooled. I am no fan of Inge's, but I do support the Tigers. I will continue to advocate an upgrade at third, but we need Inge to produce at least something right now. I hope he pulls out of this, I really do. Bilfer,

Very nice research. I think there is a big grain of truth in Inge’s being too patient. He is letting hittable pitches cruise “right down Broadway” early in the count. I also agree with Rings. Inge needs to get off of the power swing stroke and just make contact.

He is way too pull and power happy. He needs to drive the balls pitched on the outer half of the plate to right and right center. He stroked a lot of balls to right center well the year he managed to hit .287. Though much of that average came from pitchers challanging what had been a .202 career hitter at the time. By waiting and driving pitches to right he will stand a better chance of making contact on off speed pitches where he is fooled.

I am no fan of Inge’s, but I do support the Tigers. I will continue to advocate an upgrade at third, but we need Inge to produce at least something right now. I hope he pulls out of this, I really do.

]]> By: David http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52787 David Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:13:34 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52787 Very nice delve into his "slump" Billfer. I agree with you about the patience at the plate hurting him. Maybe if Leyland puts more hit and run plays on - forcing him to swing, it will break this. Although in '04 in April he had a .333 average, .984 OPS w/ 3 hrs, 15 RBIS Also, in '05 in April he hit .333 again, with a .938 OPS w/2hrs, and 13 RBIS. So not always a slow starter, still I'd try to force him into swinging and if he doesn't get a hit or two before we leave Baltimore, sit him against Bondo's rematch with Halladay too tough a righty (hes 1-14). Try and correct the problem before you sit him, if gets ahold of one at beautiful Camden (very nice park), it could fly out. Very nice delve into his “slump” Billfer. I agree with you about the patience at the plate hurting him. Maybe if Leyland puts more hit and run plays on – forcing him to swing, it will break this.

Although in ‘04 in April he had a .333 average, .984 OPS w/ 3 hrs, 15 RBIS

Also, in ‘05 in April he hit .333 again, with a .938 OPS w/2hrs, and 13 RBIS.

So not always a slow starter, still I’d try to force him into swinging and if he doesn’t get a hit or two before we leave Baltimore, sit him against Bondo’s rematch with Halladay too tough a righty (hes 1-14).

Try and correct the problem before you sit him, if gets ahold of one at beautiful Camden (very nice park), it could fly out.

]]> By: Jeff M http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52784 Jeff M Tue, 10 Apr 2007 03:32:16 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52784 Great analysis.... I never even considered that it was over-abundant patience. You might want to reword that first sentence though. It implies that Inge is a slow starter every year when I think you just wanted to say that there's at least one slow starter every year. Great analysis…. I never even considered that it was over-abundant patience.

You might want to reword that first sentence though. It implies that Inge is a slow starter every year when I think you just wanted to say that there’s at least one slow starter every year.

]]> By: Rings http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52782 Rings Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:48:36 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52782 From observation, it seems to me that he's too aggressive on many two-strike swings. He's still trying to pull the ball, to hammer it, and swinging from his heels, even when down in the count. Rather, it would be nice to see him shorten up and try to go with the pitch a bit and use all fields. From Leyland's comments yesterday, he says Brandon goes to RC with the best of 'em during BP, but not in games, so he's obviously been working on doing just that. His body language today, however, showed the same frustration and confusion that Shelton was showing last year during his prolonged slump. All of this says to me that he's over-thinking and pressing. His offensive success - when he's had it - has been specifically from <i>not</i> thinking, but just seeing and reacting. His own observation that he's "taking perfect swings" is not reflected in anyone else's observations, as you've noted, Bilfer. He needs a hit to get off the schneid...and then a break. Give the man a day or two off to clear his head and get his focus back, because he's thinking about everything but the "seeing the ball" right now. From observation, it seems to me that he’s too aggressive on many two-strike swings. He’s still trying to pull the ball, to hammer it, and swinging from his heels, even when down in the count. Rather, it would be nice to see him shorten up and try to go with the pitch a bit and use all fields.
From Leyland’s comments yesterday, he says Brandon goes to RC with the best of ‘em during BP, but not in games, so he’s obviously been working on doing just that.
His body language today, however, showed the same frustration and confusion that Shelton was showing last year during his prolonged slump.
All of this says to me that he’s over-thinking and pressing.
His offensive success – when he’s had it – has been specifically from not thinking, but just seeing and reacting.
His own observation that he’s “taking perfect swings” is not reflected in anyone else’s observations, as you’ve noted, Bilfer.
He needs a hit to get off the schneid…and then a break. Give the man a day or two off to clear his head and get his focus back, because he’s thinking about everything but the “seeing the ball” right now.

]]> By: billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52781 billfer Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:45:28 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52781 I'm not particularly worried either. Just taking a deeper dive into the slump. I’m not particularly worried either. Just taking a deeper dive into the slump.

]]> By: Craig in CA http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52780 Craig in CA Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:35:32 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52780 No need to panic. He'll come on strong. No need to panic. He’ll come on strong.

]]> By: Adam http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52777 Adam Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:16:04 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2007/04/inges-struggles/#comment-52777 Still, six games isn't that many. Remember Pudge and Polanco and Ordonez and Granderson putting up 0'fers in the playoffs? We're lucky it's only Inge slumping right now, but what are you going to do? Shelton doesn't play third. Still, six games isn’t that many. Remember Pudge and Polanco and Ordonez and Granderson putting up 0′fers in the playoffs? We’re lucky it’s only Inge slumping right now, but what are you going to do? Shelton doesn’t play third.

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