Comments on: Game 15: Royals at Tigers

By: Jeff M

Jeff M — Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:47:56 +0000

I’ll quit complaining when I die.I’d venture to say I’ve spent a few more years than you riding the highs and (mostly) lows with Detroit sports teams

It’s unfortunate that you consider Game 15 a “low”. With so much experience with true “lows”, I would expect a greater appreciation of just how good we really have it right now.

Your argument that a different manager might have an 0-14 is a little disingenuous

My argument was that a different manager would likely have a different record. 0-14 was just one of several that I tossed out. I realize a typical manager is only going to alter the outcome of a modest fraction of games, but he is going to alter the outcome in some of those games and Jim Leyland is widely considered to be among the best at his profession.

By expecting that he could alter that single quirky decision without also reconsidering every other quirky decision in his life (many of which were very successful) you are asking for a better Jim Leyland. That’s completely understandable; if I had a magic wand, I’d improve everyone from DD to the usher in section 214, but that’s just not realistic.

For the most part, anyone with a handful of years in the MLB isn’t going to improve much further. You basically just have to accept them as they are or replace them with someone who fits your needs better.

By: Mike R

Mike R — Sat, 21 Apr 2007 00:06:21 +0000

No problem. I apologize if I come across as condescending, I’m not trying to be.

By: Bob S.

Bob S. — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:55:04 +0000

Mike R.,yes,you did second guess Leyland.I suppose I took offense to the implicitly condescending suggestions by you and others to relax,don’t panic,etc.That was a bad loss Wednesday brought on by Leyland’s overmanaging and overreliance on a very mediocre closer.While this is a good team,it’s not so good it can afford to go on pissing away games.
Jeff M.,I’ll quit complaining when I die.I’d venture to say I’ve spent a few more years than you riding the highs and (mostly) lows with Detroit sports teams as well as dropping a large chunk of change in their collective coffers.If my investment of time,emotion,and money entitles me to anything,it’s to complain.I’m not advocating for Leyland being replaced,but as my wife will attest,I very loudly objected to his decision to send out Jones for the 9th.Your argument that a different manager might have an 0-14 is a little disingenuous,since most of managing is cookbook stuff,as managers themselves will tell you.Any one of us here could probably make the right tactical decisions most of the time.There are very few “WTF is he doing?” moments and pulling Zumaya after 7 pitches was one of them.

By: Mike R

Mike R — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:32:58 +0000

Bob S: I second guessed Leyland already a few times in here. You may want to go back and re-read those. I thought he made curious moves. However, people calling for Rodney’s head is a bit absurd. And my point isn’t that I’m giddy about a 9-6 team, I’m giddy about a 9-6 team with only 3 guys hitting with any regularity and a lineup that still has Sean Casey hitting 6th. THAT makes me giddy. Not just being 9-6.

By: Jeff M

Jeff M — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 17:37:59 +0000

so I play the hindsight card.

So I won’t play the hindsight card.

By: Jeff M

Jeff M — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 17:37:14 +0000

I guess second guessing Leyland for misusing his pitching staff and blowing a game is referred to as panic in true believer vernacular

First, I’ll assume this isn’t literally “second guessing”. I’m sure many people disagreed with the decision the moment it was made, so I play the hindsight card.

But the problem is that the misgivings rarely get voiced when things go well. Did Leyland’s decision backfire? Sure. Is that any guarantee that we would have won had Bonderman or Zoom pitched longer? We’ll never know.

So all of these blames and complaints are just that. The fact of the matter is Leyland, as a former catcher who has been in the game for 150 years, is above average when it comes to determing what a pitcher has left in the tank. He made a call and I guarantee he’d make the same call if he had it all to do over again.

Did the call turn out to be wrong? Of course, but guess what: He, and every other manager in the league, will be demonstrably wrong dozens more times this season.

You can’t sit there and say “9-6…10-5″ because they only way they win (which isn’t even a given) Game 15 is if Leyland changes his decision making strategy. So now you’re playing “What if we had a different manager?” The results would probably favorable for Game 15, but you have to reevaluate Games 1-14 too. It’s fair to assume that Manager X would make different decisions all along the way and could have records of 14-0, 10-4, 4-10, or 0-14 leading into the oh-so critical game 15.

The bottom line is the guys everyone is complaining about have very good track records. Baseball is a numbers game (and you ALL KNOW THIS!) they will all have bad days, but unless you’re prepared to suggest an available replacement, quit complaining and enjoy the fact that, from top to bottom, our organization is significantly better than most and LIGHT-YEARS ahead of where we were two years ago.

By: Bob S.

Bob S. — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:55:19 +0000

Thank goodness we have clear thinkers here like MikeR and Sam to admonish us to relax and not panic(I guess second guessing Leyland for misusing his pitching staff and blowing a game is referred to as panic in true believer vernacular).
I’m pretty sure no one here expected 162 wins this year.I’m also reasonably sure that games in April count the same as games in September.One game in the standings could be the difference between the playoffs or not(it’s been known to happen),and losses like Wednesday’s are particularly painful.It left me with the same sick feeling as the debacle in Minnesota last year.
And just think of what you’re missing-if you relish 9&6,you could be downright giddy at 10&5.

By: David

David — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:59:18 +0000

I’m not worked up, just disapointed that we could not pull out a W against them when our “supposed” ace throws a gem.

By: Mike R

Mike R — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:50:50 +0000

Every team gets great starts from pitchers and has trouble scoring runs in said starts, some times. It happens. Nothing to get worked up over.

By: David

David — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:44:20 +0000

I never said the Blue Jays lineup was bad, in fact I think it is one of the better ones in the league.

The Orioles on the other hand do have a few quality hitters but would you take their lineup over ours? Chicagos? Clevelands? NY? Boston? Toronto? Texas? Minny? I don’t think so.

Oh and it would be great it would be great if we played one good team and two bad ones on average throughout the year but that won’t be the case.

Oh and no I do not expect the dominance over the Royals I do think they are a much improved team with Grienke/Meche Sweeney returning, Buck, Teahen, Gordon, Shealy etc. BUT, IF WE GET THE START LIKE WE GOT OUT OF JEREMY BONDERMAN, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO WIN EVERY TIME OUT AGAINST THEM.

By: Mike R

Mike R — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:06:03 +0000

And wow. Did i really just say 6/9ths? hahaha, change that to 2/3rds.

By: Mike R

Mike R — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:04:14 +0000

Everyone’s panicking. Settle down. No need to fret. If no one’s hitting, Rodney’s still struggling, and Todd Jones is blowing games left and right by the end of May (when one can finally draw conclusions on trends for the baseball season) then we should press the panick button.

For now, I’m just going to relish in the fact that we’re 9-6 and have 6/9ths of our lineup looking like AAAA hitters. And that won’t last for much longer.

By: Adam

Adam — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:49:50 +0000

David: We’re thirteen games in. We have a better start than we did last year. This is baseball, and it doesn’t change just because “expectations” have risen.

If you don’t lose two in a row all season, the chances that you didn’t WIN two in a row (i.e. going .500) is almost zero.

The “worst offenses” in the AL. The Royals, sure. I’ll take that one. The Orioles? Before we played them, they took two out of three from the Yankees. They’re not horrible. The Blue Jays? Lead the league in pretty much every batting stat and we still split (and could easily have won all games in) the two series’ we played.

Don’t tell me you were expecting the Tigers to do as well against the Royals this year as we did last year. Last year it was just one bad team against another – no one cared. This year they’re out to get us. As is every other team. The chances we win 95 again this year are almost zero. So, with that in mind, remember where we’re at right now, and extrapolate it. That’s an end-of-season-record of 97 and 65. You’re going to complain about that?

By: Bob S.

Bob S. — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:40:14 +0000

Face it-we have the shakiest closer of all the AL contenders(Yankees,RedSox,WhiteSox,Twins,Angels).As nice a guy as he seems to be,”HeartAttack” Jones flirts with disaster too often.No way-NO WAY-should Zumaya have come out after 7 pitches in the 8th,especially with Jones on so little rest.This loss is on Leyland.

By: David

David — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:12:24 +0000

No we have not lost 2 in a row, but you could do that over a course of a season and still go .500.

No we have not lost a series but with the talent we have including the starting pitching (and relief) we tote out there every night do you plan to lose a series to some of the worst offenses in the AL (not that they are bad, its just if you compare them to most teams the Royals or Orioles they will not score as many runs). Not to mention that they don’t have the best pitchers themselves.

Yea its nice that we have not gotten shut out (even by Halladay), but I we have only scored 3 runs or less in EIGHT, count em’ 8 games so far thats over 50%.

We could have and should have swept the Royals at least this series, and to lose both games against Halladay and the Toronto lineup I understand but it would have been nice to split, due to the fact that we had our ace on the hill.

Anyways your right it is nice to be complaining with a winning record, but they are a team comming off of an AL Chamionship and expectations have rose. Only going .600 against the Royals is not one of them.