Comments on: The one about the gunk http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:11:17 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Cardinals Diaspora » Win One for Billy Ray http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21958 Cardinals Diaspora » Win One for Billy Ray Wed, 25 Oct 2006 01:23:27 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21958 [...] If you want more on the gunk that is Kenny Rogers’ personality, er, hand, visitate the Detroit Tigers Weblog. [...] [...] If you want more on the gunk that is Kenny Rogers’ personality, er, hand, visitate the Detroit Tigers Weblog. [...]

]]> By: Charly Streetgang http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21937 Charly Streetgang Wed, 25 Oct 2006 00:13:44 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21937 True....unless after handling his bat he intends to play with his balls.... True….unless after handling his bat he intends to play with his balls….

]]> By: Bob S. http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21916 Bob S. Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:50:58 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21916 A gentleman always washes his hands after handling his bat. A gentleman always washes his hands after handling his bat.

]]> By: Charly Streetgang http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21903 Charly Streetgang Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:36:22 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21903 I'd like to say I've moved on from the pine tar thing, but it has me wondering. In the NL, if a pitcher bats without batting gloves with pine tar on his bat, is pine tar no longer a foriegn substance when he pitches? Or does he have to wash his hands after every at bat? I’d like to say I’ve moved on from the pine tar thing, but it has me wondering. In the NL, if a pitcher bats without batting gloves with pine tar on his bat, is pine tar no longer a foriegn substance when he pitches? Or does he have to wash his hands after every at bat?

]]> By: Kurt http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21867 Kurt Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:33:09 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21867 Re: Nate Silver's article: You wanna talk splits, Carpenter allows "good contact" 14% of the time on the road, and 6% of the time at home! Now, I'm not accusing Carpenter of anything, but I think this does demonstrate the flaw in Silver's logic. Re: Nate Silver’s article:

You wanna talk splits, Carpenter allows “good contact” 14% of the time on the road, and 6% of the time at home!

Now, I’m not accusing Carpenter of anything, but I think this does demonstrate the flaw in Silver’s logic.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21860 Andrew Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:31:28 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21860 If this series gets to a game 6 back in Detroit with Rogers on the mound I say that everyone in attendance to the following - No matter how cold it is (most likely it will be freezing) you need to color the palms of both hands with brown or black paint (or markers - whatever you have that's handy). Then, instead of waving your rally towels you just wave your brown-stained hands in the air while the unblemished Rogers closes out the series in continued dominating fashion. Anyone else ever hear the saying "God made dirt, so dirt don't hurt" when you were growing up? <i>Note: The above comment about coloring your hands was only meant in good fun. I don't want Billfer to receive more nasty emails over this overblown situation.</i> Lets, "Play Ball!" If this series gets to a game 6 back in Detroit with Rogers on the mound I say that everyone in attendance to the following –

No matter how cold it is (most likely it will be freezing) you need to color the palms of both hands with brown or black paint (or markers – whatever you have that’s handy). Then, instead of waving your rally towels you just wave your brown-stained hands in the air while the unblemished Rogers closes out the series in continued dominating fashion.

Anyone else ever hear the saying “God made dirt, so dirt don’t hurt” when you were growing up?

Note: The above comment about coloring your hands was only meant in good fun. I don’t want Billfer to receive more nasty emails over this overblown situation.

Lets, “Play Ball!”

]]> By: Micheal http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21842 Micheal Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:53:19 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21842 I knew when they started showing that dirt clump it would become a circus. If you compare all the runs the Cardinals scored the other innings when he didn't have anything on his hand... or wait they didn't score any runs. To me it seems they are looking for something or someone to blame. My wife said this morning that they are going to have shirts for sale in St. Louis that "Detroit couldn't stand the heat, they had to cheat". Maybe I should do a shirt showing dirt with a slogan, it wasn't our fault we lost, it was the dirt! with a red bird. I am also from St. Louis, but now a Detroiter. Maybe the only way for St. Louis and the media to be quiet about the entire thing, is for Rogers to continuing his excellent pitching against the Cardinals the next time he is on the mound. I knew when they started showing that dirt clump it would become a circus. If you compare all the runs the Cardinals scored the other innings when he didn’t have anything on his hand… or wait they didn’t score any runs. To me it seems they are looking for something or someone to blame.

My wife said this morning that they are going to have shirts for sale in St. Louis that “Detroit couldn’t stand the heat, they had to cheat”. Maybe I should do a shirt showing dirt with a slogan, it wasn’t our fault we lost, it was the dirt! with a red bird.

I am also from St. Louis, but now a Detroiter. Maybe the only way for St. Louis and the media to be quiet about the entire thing, is for Rogers to continuing his excellent pitching against the Cardinals the next time he is on the mound.

]]> By: Fredbird http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21840 Fredbird Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:50:32 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21840 I am a lifelong Cardinals fan and a lifelong baseball fan. I love old school teams like the Tigers. I love that this World Series has two teams that played each other in a World Series before my parents were born! It is a shame that two classic baseball cities have fans that make such childish comments like some of the ones I have read above. Both cities are classy. Both teams are classy. The fans of both teams know baseball and love their teams. Did Rogers cheat - clearly. Did McGwire show bad morality (not agianst baseball rules at the time) - most likely! The reality is if I have a child who plays baseball and they come to me and tell me that they were using steroids while they put pine tar on a baseball when they were pitching, I would not even notice the pine tar crap! St. Louis and Detroit, stop embarassing yourselves! GO CARDS! I am a lifelong Cardinals fan and a lifelong baseball fan. I love old school teams like the Tigers. I love that this World Series has two teams that played each other in a World Series before my parents were born! It is a shame that two classic baseball cities have fans that make such childish comments like some of the ones I have read above. Both cities are classy. Both teams are classy. The fans of both teams know baseball and love their teams. Did Rogers cheat – clearly. Did McGwire show bad morality (not agianst baseball rules at the time) – most likely! The reality is if I have a child who plays baseball and they come to me and tell me that they were using steroids while they put pine tar on a baseball when they were pitching, I would not even notice the pine tar crap!
St. Louis and Detroit, stop embarassing yourselves! GO CARDS!

]]> By: Anne http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21761 Anne Tue, 24 Oct 2006 05:34:14 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21761 Oh yeah, and Cards fans who send e-mails like the one above? Can you say "sore losers"? Oh yeah, and Cards fans who send e-mails like the one above? Can you say “sore losers”?

]]> By: Anne http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21760 Anne Tue, 24 Oct 2006 05:30:52 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21760 OK, just in the last hour or so I have completely changed my mind about this issue. I had been thinking Rogers had pine tar or something on his hand, but it was not a huge deal because everyone does it (not that that makes it OK, but at least both sides benefit equally) and it doesn't affect the flight of the ball <i>that</i> much. However, I just spent a few minutes mentally picturing myself rubbing a baseball with a bit of damp dirt and guess what? I ended up with a dirty patch on the heel of my hand, at the base of my thumb, just like Rogers. If, as he claims, he rubs up a new baseball with dirt before pitching it, it makes sense he would have this dirty patch in that place a lot. I may be the only one who thinks so, but it could really be just dirt. OK, just in the last hour or so I have completely changed my mind about this issue. I had been thinking Rogers had pine tar or something on his hand, but it was not a huge deal because everyone does it (not that that makes it OK, but at least both sides benefit equally) and it doesn’t affect the flight of the ball that much. However, I just spent a few minutes mentally picturing myself rubbing a baseball with a bit of damp dirt and guess what? I ended up with a dirty patch on the heel of my hand, at the base of my thumb, just like Rogers. If, as he claims, he rubs up a new baseball with dirt before pitching it, it makes sense he would have this dirty patch in that place a lot. I may be the only one who thinks so, but it could really be just dirt.

]]> By: Bobber http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21752 Bobber Tue, 24 Oct 2006 04:55:54 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21752 If "Cardinal Fan" thinks the Tigers need pine tar to stay with the Buschies, he-she needs to come up for air. Desperately. On the other hand, if you've spent your summer nearly drowning in the NL swamps, with 83 wins to show for it (that would be 5 games over .500, and in the National League, you know, the league that finished 56 games below .500 against the "Jr Circuit"?), you can be excused for a malaria-like delirium. I suppose the reason the Cards couldn't do 100 wins this year was that it's a pine-tar world and the Cardinals didn't get the memo. If “Cardinal Fan” thinks the Tigers need pine tar to stay with the Buschies, he-she needs to come up for air. Desperately.

On the other hand, if you’ve spent your summer nearly drowning in the NL swamps, with 83 wins to show for it (that would be 5 games over .500, and in the National League, you know, the league that finished 56 games below .500 against the “Jr Circuit”?), you can be excused for a malaria-like delirium.

I suppose the reason the Cards couldn’t do 100 wins this year was that it’s a pine-tar world and the Cardinals didn’t get the memo.

]]> By: Kyle J http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21733 Kyle J Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:33:10 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21733 SI.com's Jon Heyman has the scoop from an anonymous bullpen coach: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/10/23/scoop.rogers/index.html "He definitely was using pine tar. It can cake with pine tar and rosin. Maybe after the second inning, he went back to the shaving cream and added moisture. I'd say he was either hiding it better or he went back to the shaving cream or suntan lotion. "Some guys use a combination of all three -- pine tar, shaving cream and suntan lotion -- or you could use one or two. They use the sports suntan lotion so they don't accidentally irritate their eyes. "I bet Tony La Russa's pitchers are mad at him for saying anything, because a lot of guys do it, and I'd be surprise if there's a whole staff of guys who don't do it. In fact, I'd say a majority of guys use one of the three -- shaving cream, suntan lotion or pine tar. They can't like him ratting out the other team when everyone does it. Maybe he had to say something because it's the World Series, it's on TV and he probably has to answer to his owner. "But you'll notice he didn't continue to talk about it, and he instructed his guys not to talk about it. They probably have no interest in catching Rogers because if they do then the umpire is looking at everyone.'' [Click on the article for a full technical description of how pine tar gets used by pitchers.] SI.com’s Jon Heyman has the scoop from an anonymous bullpen coach:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

“He definitely was using pine tar. It can cake with pine tar and rosin. Maybe after the second inning, he went back to the shaving cream and added moisture. I’d say he was either hiding it better or he went back to the shaving cream or suntan lotion.

“Some guys use a combination of all three — pine tar, shaving cream and suntan lotion — or you could use one or two. They use the sports suntan lotion so they don’t accidentally irritate their eyes.

“I bet Tony La Russa’s pitchers are mad at him for saying anything, because a lot of guys do it, and I’d be surprise if there’s a whole staff of guys who don’t do it. In fact, I’d say a majority of guys use one of the three — shaving cream, suntan lotion or pine tar. They can’t like him ratting out the other team when everyone does it. Maybe he had to say something because it’s the World Series, it’s on TV and he probably has to answer to his owner.

“But you’ll notice he didn’t continue to talk about it, and he instructed his guys not to talk about it. They probably have no interest in catching Rogers because if they do then the umpire is looking at everyone.”

[Click on the article for a full technical description of how pine tar gets used by pitchers.]

]]> By: Josh http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21730 Josh Tue, 24 Oct 2006 02:20:41 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21730 To me, there are two logical explanations that could account for why LaRussa did not make a large deal of the "goop." 1. LaRussa did not want to risk a friendship over a possibility of Rogers using a foreign substance. 2. LaRussa knew that the moment he made a large deal of the "goop" issue that Leyland would do the same in the bottom of the inning with Weaver. Maybe LaRussa knew his man was depending on pine tar for his grip in the cold weather as well. Maybe he decided as manager of his team, they had a better chance at winning with both pitchers using pine tar, than both pitchers being gone. I don't know the Cardinals bullpen very well, but I feel comfortable in knowing we have Ledezma and Miner able to provide long relief (basically a start) in a pinch. Maybe LaRussa wasn't confident enough in his bullpen or Weaver's ability to pitch in the cold without pine tar. To me, there are two logical explanations that could account for why LaRussa did not make a large deal of the “goop.”

1. LaRussa did not want to risk a friendship over a possibility of Rogers using a foreign substance.

2. LaRussa knew that the moment he made a large deal of the “goop” issue that Leyland would do the same in the bottom of the inning with Weaver. Maybe LaRussa knew his man was depending on pine tar for his grip in the cold weather as well. Maybe he decided as manager of his team, they had a better chance at winning with both pitchers using pine tar, than both pitchers being gone.

I don’t know the Cardinals bullpen very well, but I feel comfortable in knowing we have Ledezma and Miner able to provide long relief (basically a start) in a pinch. Maybe LaRussa wasn’t confident enough in his bullpen or Weaver’s ability to pitch in the cold without pine tar.

]]> By: Chris Y. http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21719 Chris Y. Tue, 24 Oct 2006 01:13:33 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21719 St. Louis ain't exactly Park Avenue. But alot of people got no class, regardless of their baseball allegiances. Question Kenny all you might, but nobody can say he's guilty for sure. And if you are so darn certain, I sure hope you don't get selected for jury duty. St. Louis ain’t exactly Park Avenue. But alot of people got no class, regardless of their baseball allegiances.

Question Kenny all you might, but nobody can say he’s guilty for sure. And if you are so darn certain, I sure hope you don’t get selected for jury duty.

]]> By: Steve http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21717 Steve Tue, 24 Oct 2006 00:59:45 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/10/the-one-about-the-gunk/#comment-21717 Billfer, good analysis on the alreayd beat to death "pine Tar issue". If Tony Larussa did not make a big deal about it why should the rest of the nation. Second to the Cardinal Fan who was "good" enough to send his thoughts to the site owner, we have no say on staying in baseball, so I guess we are staying. Detroit has come along way in the last few years. I am sure you could find an area or two in good ole St. Louie that has seen hard times. I hope you will forgive us for not sending you an email many years ago when Mark McGuire was thought to have used questionable methods crying foul. What is done is done, let it go my man, you will find like more enjoyable. Besides if you take a look at facts, Roger pitched better after he washed the dirt off his hands, note: Fact. Billfer thanks again for taking the high road on the issue at hand. People like that have no business on sites like this where we talk about issues in a civil manor, no matter the injustice that might be felt. Steve Billfer, good analysis on the alreayd beat to death “pine Tar issue”. If Tony Larussa did not make a big deal about it why should the rest of the nation.

Second to the Cardinal Fan who was “good” enough to send his thoughts to the site owner, we have no say on staying in baseball, so I guess we are staying. Detroit has come along way in the last few years. I am sure you could find an area or two in good ole St. Louie that has seen hard times. I hope you will forgive us for not sending you an email many years ago when Mark McGuire was thought to have used questionable methods crying foul. What is done is done, let it go my man, you will find like more enjoyable. Besides if you take a look at facts, Roger pitched better after he washed the dirt off his hands, note: Fact.

Billfer thanks again for taking the high road on the issue at hand. People like that have no business on sites like this where we talk about issues in a civil manor, no matter the injustice that might be felt.

Steve

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