You’re missing the point. I didn’t say there were previous Tiger managers that did better. I’m saying that Leyland makes mistakes. They’re mistakes, stop trying to pass the buck by saying that other managers make the same mistakes- I know they do.

@ Jeff

Do I think Leyland knows “the Book”? I think he knows the traditional “book”, but not the correct “book”. I don’t think all of his mistakes are attempts at game theory to throw off the other team (and even if they were he does them far to often for that to even be the right use of game theory).

I don’t think it’s fair to tell people to stop criticizing Leyland because of x or y excuse. If he screws up he screws up. A spade has to be called a spade. I’m not saying fire Leyland or he’s the worst manager in the bigs, but he is frustrating to watch sometimes, and I think even you two would agree. Thanks for the civil conversation, though!

I’m allowed to (correctly) criticize him for these mistakes, regardless of what performance the Tigers might have shown under a Chris J led season.

I realize that you’re not asserting that you could do better, but at the same time, you are asserting that you’re qualified to judge him. Every manager in the league has forgotten more baseball than we’ll ever know, so the only things that we fans can competently judge are W/L records.

You have to keep in mind that managers can’t play it by the book all the time. Managing tactics are as much about keeping the opposing manager off-balance as pitching is about keeping the hitter off-balance.

An experienced manager knows the book. It’s foolish to think otherwise. It’s frustrating because you don’t know why he’s deviating. You never will. Even if a reporter asks him, you can’t be sure that you’re getting a straight and complete answer.

Could Joe Torre have done better with this team? Possibly, but not necessarily. He’s only had success with one team in his career and that team was pretty good before he got there. He deserves a lot of credit, but there’s a big difference between turning a good team into champions and turning a bad team into a good team.

Yes, every manager in baseball makes tactical mistakes that have shown to be tactical mistakes by decades of data. Tell me which Tigers manager from recent decades you thought made all the right moves by sabermetric standards? Now tell me which manager was as good at managing a team’s emotions/confidence as Leyland?

Comparing Leyland to Kasparov is not a fair analogy. Leyland isn’t one of the greatest managers in history, and doesn’t have one of the world’s best logical and game theory minds. He makes tactical mistakes that have shown to be tactical mistakes by decades of data. Does that make him different from 95% of managers out there? No. But does that make him wrong all the same? Yes.

Whether or not I would be a better manager than Leyland has nothing to do with the fact that Leyland has, in fact, made mistakes. I’m allowed to (correctly) criticize him for these mistakes, regardless of what performance the Tigers might have shown under a Chris J led season.

It’s so good to still be in first place…

BENCH NEIFI NOW

-Sam

Recently, We are 4-0 and 6-4 with Omar in the Lineup and 1-5 with Neifi in the lineup.

-Sam

Anyway, there were some Cub fans behind me. They WERE so glad we took Neifi off there hands. I can’t beleive he was back in the lineup today. I wonder what the team record is with him v. Omar since PP went down.

-Sam

Just because Leyland has done a good job in one area means that he can’t be questioned in another area?

Question all you want (I do from time to time), just don’t assume that you know the answers too. I know how to play chess, but I would never have the gall to say something like “What a glaring mistake, Kasparov! How could you let him take your rook???” Sometimes you just have to give the experts the benefit of the doubt until all of the results are in.