Comments on: The Big Three http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/02/the-big-three/ News, views, and analysis on the Detroit Tigers and baseball Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:44:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Daniel http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/02/the-big-three/#comment-63228 Daniel Thu, 09 Aug 2007 19:44:53 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/02/the-big-three/#comment-63228 I have to say, that I could not agree with you in 100% regarding The Big Three, but it's just my opinion, which could be wrong :) I have to say, that I could not agree with you in 100% regarding The Big Three, but it’s just my opinion, which could be wrong :)

]]> By: billfer http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/02/the-big-three/#comment-1877 billfer Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:05:21 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/02/the-big-three/#comment-1877 Joe, Thanks for getting the stats. This may sound strange coming from a saber-type guy, but I don't know if they tell the whole story. There must be something else that the scouts are seeing. I think the only knock on Verlander would the the lack of experience above A ball. As for Zumaya, statisically he's right there. I think the only thing keeping him out of the discussion is this belief that he's destined to be a closer. I just don't know if that is a fair tag after what he did last year. Joe,

Thanks for getting the stats. This may sound strange coming from a saber-type guy, but I don’t know if they tell the whole story. There must be something else that the scouts are seeing. I think the only knock on Verlander would the the lack of experience above A ball. As for Zumaya, statisically he’s right there. I think the only thing keeping him out of the discussion is this belief that he’s destined to be a closer. I just don’t know if that is a fair tag after what he did last year.

]]> By: Walewander http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/02/the-big-three/#comment-1872 Walewander Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:09:18 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/02/the-big-three/#comment-1872 BAs Top 50 is out.. 3 Bengals in it, Verlander in the top 10. Maybin and Zumaya also. What are the odds on Zumaya taking over as closer by the ASB? BAs Top 50 is out.. 3 Bengals in it, Verlander in the top 10. Maybin and Zumaya also. What are the odds on Zumaya taking over as closer by the ASB?

]]> By: Boston Fan in Michigan http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/02/the-big-three/#comment-1871 Boston Fan in Michigan Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:11:00 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/02/the-big-three/#comment-1871 I just like the term 'prospect smackdown'. I'd like to see Verlander involved in a knockdown brawl with these kids. Then we'd really see what was what. I just like the term ‘prospect smackdown’. I’d like to see Verlander involved in a knockdown brawl with these kids. Then we’d really see what was what.

]]> By: Joe http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/02/the-big-three/#comment-1870 Joe Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:02:24 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/02/the-big-three/#comment-1870 This obviously neglects previous seasons' stats. Verlander (2/20/83) Lakeland: 86 ip, 104/19 k/bb, 1.67 era, 70 hits, 3 hr Erie: 32.2 ip, 32/7 k/bb, 0.28 era, 11 hits, 1 hr Detroit: 11.1 ip, 7/5 k/bb, 15 hits, 1 hr Cain (10/1/84) Fresno (PCL): 145.2 ip, 176/73 k/bb, 4.39 era, 118 hits, 22 hr SF: 46.1 ip, 30/19 k/bb, 2.33 era, 24 hits, 4 hr Billingsley (7/29/84) Jacksonville (Sou): 146 ip, 162/50 k/bb, 3.51 era, 116 hits, 12 hr Zumaya (11/9/84) Erie (EL): 107.1ip, 143/52 k/bb, 2.77 era, 71 hits, 8 hr Toledo (IL): 44 ip, 56/24 k/bb, 2.66 era, 30 hits, 2 hr Cain had limited success in the majors (k/bb ratio suggests the ERA was artificially low) and other than that Zumaya's better than him in every way he's better than Verlander (performance against higher levels, youth, strikeout rate) so it seems inconsistent to have Cain ahead of Verlander and not have Zumaya ahead of both. Oh well. At least we're finally in the debate, and we've got two of the top pitching prospects in baseball. This obviously neglects previous seasons’ stats.

Verlander (2/20/83)
Lakeland: 86 ip, 104/19 k/bb, 1.67 era, 70 hits, 3 hr
Erie: 32.2 ip, 32/7 k/bb, 0.28 era, 11 hits, 1 hr
Detroit: 11.1 ip, 7/5 k/bb, 15 hits, 1 hr

Cain (10/1/84)
Fresno (PCL): 145.2 ip, 176/73 k/bb, 4.39 era, 118 hits, 22 hr
SF: 46.1 ip, 30/19 k/bb, 2.33 era, 24 hits, 4 hr

Billingsley (7/29/84)
Jacksonville (Sou): 146 ip, 162/50 k/bb, 3.51 era, 116 hits, 12 hr

Zumaya (11/9/84)
Erie (EL): 107.1ip, 143/52 k/bb, 2.77 era, 71 hits, 8 hr
Toledo (IL): 44 ip, 56/24 k/bb, 2.66 era, 30 hits, 2 hr

Cain had limited success in the majors (k/bb ratio suggests the ERA was artificially low) and other than that Zumaya’s better than him in every way he’s better than Verlander (performance against higher levels, youth, strikeout rate) so it seems inconsistent to have Cain ahead of Verlander and not have Zumaya ahead of both.

Oh well. At least we’re finally in the debate, and we’ve got two of the top pitching prospects in baseball.

]]> By: Joe http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/02/the-big-three/#comment-1869 Joe Wed, 22 Feb 2006 20:47:05 +0000 http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2006/02/the-big-three/#comment-1869 I'm not particularly familiar with Cain or Billingsley, but I do know that Cain walked something like 72 guys last year. Sickels says that he tops out around 95 and needs work on his changeup. Is his breaking ball better than Verlander's? I doubt it, but maybe. It's tough for me to see how one justifies ranking him over Verlander other than by using age, which matters less (IMO) for pitchers than it does for hitters. I suppose perhaps they're factoring in that Cain played in the PCL. I don't know. I also remember thinking that Billingsley's stats were clearly inferior to Verlander's, though I can't cite them for you here. Again, is it only age? He doesn't have Verlander's velocity. He doesn't have better secondary stuff. I mean, these people know what they're doing, but I don't really get how Verlander ranks below those two on so many lists. Maybe LA and SF sell more copy. Oh, so if it's only age, why wouldn't Zumaya also rank ahead of Verlander. He seems to me to be a better comp for Cain and Billingsley, and again, I'm not sure he's not the superior prospect. Perhaps I'll go dig up the stats. I’m not particularly familiar with Cain or Billingsley, but I do know that Cain walked something like 72 guys last year. Sickels says that he tops out around 95 and needs work on his changeup. Is his breaking ball better than Verlander’s? I doubt it, but maybe. It’s tough for me to see how one justifies ranking him over Verlander other than by using age, which matters less (IMO) for pitchers than it does for hitters. I suppose perhaps they’re factoring in that Cain played in the PCL. I don’t know. I also remember thinking that Billingsley’s stats were clearly inferior to Verlander’s, though I can’t cite them for you here. Again, is it only age? He doesn’t have Verlander’s velocity. He doesn’t have better secondary stuff. I mean, these people know what they’re doing, but I don’t really get how Verlander ranks below those two on so many lists. Maybe LA and SF sell more copy.

Oh, so if it’s only age, why wouldn’t Zumaya also rank ahead of Verlander. He seems to me to be a better comp for Cain and Billingsley, and again, I’m not sure he’s not the superior prospect.

Perhaps I’ll go dig up the stats.

]]>